Zeppelin death

[Gary Samson]

Every now and then you come across an image from the First World War that brings you up for a moment. For me, this is one them, recently discovered in John Masters' Fourteen Eighteen published in 1965 by Michael Joseph. There's no blood or hideous injuries, just a simple yet poignant mark in the grass captioned The impression left by an airman falling from a Zeppelin.

Gary

[Bob Coulson]

Gary,

This photograph also appears in The Baby Killers by Thomas Fegan.

Apparently it was a crewman of L 31 which came down at Potters Bar.

Bob.

[Theo]

This is the commanding officer and 'ace of aces' of the Naval Airship Division, Kapitänleutnant Heinrich Mathy, in charge of L31 when she was shot down in flames near Potters Bar on October 2nd 1916 by 2nd Lt Wulfram Tempest flying from the RFC Home Defence Squadron base at North Weald Bassett.

According to eyewitness accounts, Mathy was still alive when villagers reached him but died shortly afterwards.

Further details of this action, combat reports etc can be added if anyone is interested.

[Gary Samson]

Bob, Theo, many thanks for the detailed background information on this photograph. An unusual image to come across amid the 'typical' scenes of wrecked trenches and littered battlefields.

Gary

[stu]

Hi everyone,

Sorry this reply is a bit out of date but I only saw it today having joined the forum only a couple of days ago.

It was the story of the downed airship(amongst other Great War stories)that my Grandmother told me as a child that really started my interest in the war.

As a young lady at the time and living quite close to the site,she used to tell me how she saw the airship shot down,and that for sometime afterwards people would visit the crash site to look for wreckage.

Some time afterwards the R.F.C. errected a memorial to the dead crew at the site,this being located at the Cuffley end of The Ridgeway which is actually about 3 miles from Potters Bar!!

The memorial is still there and can be seen on the right just before The Plough pub as you go down the hill into Cuffley,I believe people still lay flowers at the site which is nice.

Stuart

[Guest Pete Wood]

Hi Stu

The airship that your Grandmother was referring to was a different airship. It was SL 11, commanded by Hauptmann Schramm - and was the first German airship to be destroyed on British Soil. SL 11 was brought down by 19 year old Lieutenant Leefe Robinson (Worcs Regt) RFC who was awarded the VC.

Leefe was later posted to France and then shot down and taken prisoner. He died 17 days after his release on 31.12.18 and there is a pub called the Leefe Robinson in his home town of Stanmore.

The Plough Inn, at Cufley, still has a few photos of Leefe Robinson in the saloon bar. The Inn was used to hold the inquest for the dead German crew.

I doubt that there would have been any souvenirs for the thousands of spectators who travelled from all over the home counties to see the wreckage. The SL 11 was built by Schutte-Lanzs (hence SL) and was, basically, made of wood - whereas the ships made by Zeppelin had an alloy and steel ring frameworlk. I am sure Theo can explain it better than I.

There is a small memorial, as you say, about 50 yards up the hill (and on the same side of the road) as the Plough. It's a lovely memorial erected by the readers of the Daily Express and, as you say, still cared for.

[Raster Scanning]

The area where the Potters Bar (L31) Zeppelin crashed was built on years ago. There was an oak tree damaged in the crash that became a point of pilgrimage. This tree was retained and stood in the drive of one of the new houses. This tree is now long gone.

The casualties were buried locally but were removed after the war.

The Potters Bar local history society recently produced a very informative booklet on the subject, It was (is?) available in the local shops.

John

[Guest Pete Wood]

The booklet about the Potters Bar airship is lovely. I used the information to visit the wreck site in the aptly named street of Tempest Avenue. The tree was located where the drive leads to house number 9 and 11.

The residents I met were very nice and while only one of them even knew about the Zeppelin, all were very receptive to a 'Diggers'-style investigation of their gardens. Maybe one day.

The booklet also described how the farmer, who owned the land then, made a small fortune by charging the tens of thousands of visitors who came to see the airship which had caused the most havoc in the UK. Mathy was the most respected, by all sides, and daring airship commander.

The soldiers sent to guard Mathy's ship, kept themselves in beer by charging for unofficial (and after-hours) tours of the site. Stolen souvenirs could also be bought from the guards, as the wreckage was cleared away. But the most enterprising soldiers were those who, long after the site ahd been cleared, were still selling bits of aluminium from chopped-up mess tins.

I belong to a few airship groups and we find it difficult to supress a grin when the handle of a tin mug appears on eBay, described as part of the controls of a downed Zeppelin. As the ad says, it certainly has been in their family for over 80 years. But the only flying that this lump of alloy did was in 1916 when Pte Smith hurled it at Pte Jones....

[Raster Scanning]

R.T's.

When I was posted to London for a few months last year, I stayed in Cotton Rd, Potters Bar, I also visited the site. As somone who was born within sight of the Cardington Hangars I have always had a facination with airships.

If you are interested I have a few pictures I have collected over the years, email me and I will scan them.

Perhaps you can tell me if this French airship is WW1 or before? I suspect the latter.

John.

[Guest Pete Wood]

My 'expertise' (I use the term very loosely) is limited to British, German and US airships. But I'm convinced I am on safe ground when I say Pre-War.

It looks circa 1910 to me and is quite similar to the British Willows No. 4 (His Majesty's Airship Number 2).

Has anyone mentioned Cardington on this forum before? It has quite a good WW1 history, if you want to start a new thread.....

[stu]

Hi Racing Teapots,

Thanks for the info,I wasn't aware that there was another crash nearby,so assumed the Potters Bar and Cuffley crashes were the same and that people refered to it as the Potters Bar crash.

This is amazing,my family have lived mostly in this area(although not in Potters Bar itself)since before WW1,not one of them ever mentioned another crash other than the one at Cuffley.

When I get the oppotunity I will get along to the site to have a look,even if there is houses on the site,it will still be interesting.

I love the story of the soldiers selling parts of mess tins as parts of the airship,thats typical of the enterprising British Tommy.

Regards.

Stu

[Malcolm]

I have found photos of both crashed Zeps in Illustrated War News. September 25th for Cuffley and October1st for Potters Bar. One is of the stripped oak tree.

If you want I'll scan them for you.

Aye

Malcolm

[Tom Morgan]

The booklet about the Potters Bar airship is lovely. I used the information to visit the wreck site in the aptly named street of Tempest Avenue. The tree was located where the drive leads to house number 9 and 11.

Just to bring this right up to date. In the last few years these two houses seem to have been replaced by a new one. What used to be the drive to these two houses is now a private road called Wulstan Close (after Wulstan Tempest, of course.)

Incidentally, regarding Stu saying that his family had never mentioned the Potters Bar crash although they lived quite near - I visited a school in Potters Bar last year, to talk to the students prior to a battlefield tour. No-one there - teachers or students - had any idea that a Zeppelin had crashed on their town!

[Malcolm]

Hi all,

Pictures of both Zeppelins are on a ' place to play' under test.

I'l get it right one of these days!

Aye

Malcolm

[Guest Pete Wood]

Malcolm

Your pictures in the test area show the Potters Bar Zeppelin, but don't show the Cuffley airship.

The pictures (including the gondola) which are captioned as crashing near the Essex Coast is actually showing another airship - and not one of the ones we have mentioned. It's the L32 which came down at Snails Hill Farm in Great Burstead.

I'll write some more about it, later, in the main thread under Terror In The Skies.

[Malcolm]

page called test is Cuffley, September. crash near the cottage, family posing outside etc, page called test2 is , October, Potters Bar showing the oak tree.

Look at the caption under the bottom picture of first page.

Aye

Malcolm.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Malcolm, I can understand your confusion. Three German airships were brought down within a week or so - and the paper's captions are not clear.

L31 crashed on to the oak tree in Potters Bar. The oak tree became known as Zeppelin Oak.

L32 was shot down by 2 Lt Frederick Sowrey and it too crashed onto an oak tree at Snails Hall Farm on the corner of Outwood Road and Green Frams Lane in Great Burstead. The branches of this oak tree were stripped (unlike the branches at Potters Bar)

L33 came down in a field between Little Wigborough and Peldon. The airship had been damaged (holed) by Lt A de B Brandon. The airship landed fairly intact and was destroyed/sabotaged by the German crew to prevent it being repaired by the British.

[Malcolm]

RT,

Three Zeps! I never realised we got that many within a week. Whichever ones in the photos they are can you number them for the other forum users please ' cos my brain is beginning to hurt.?

Aye

Malcolm

[Guest Pete Wood]

Look at your pictures and I've done it

[Malcolm]

So you have. Thanks

Aye

Malcolm

[Rosemary Clarke]

and was the first German airship to be destroyed on British Soil. SL 11 was brought down by 19 year old Lieutenant Leefe Robinson (Worcs Regt) RFC who was awarded the VC.

Leefe was later posted to France and then shot down and taken prisoner. He died 17 days after his release on 31.12.18 and there is a pub called the Leefe Robinson in his home town of Stanmore.

The Plough Inn, at Cufley, still has a few photos of Leefe Robinson in the saloon bar. The Inn was used to hold the inquest for the dead German crew.

The biography of Leefe Robinson - The Airship VC by Raymond Rimell gives a full account of the whole episode.

After all he had achieved and endured, Leefe Robinson fell victim to 'flu.

I have a personal interest in this episode, as my maiden name is/was Cufley.

Rosemary

[Guest Steve Seaman]

In relation to the Potters Bar Zeppelin, I remember many years ago my Nan telling me how she saw the Zeppelin crashing in PB . What interested me at the time was the fact that she could see the small village of Potters Bar from Silver St in Edmonton North London . If my memory serves me right the German airman are buried in the Mutton Lane cemetary opposite the Fire station.

Steve

[Guest Pete Wood]

The air raids were a big deal. When the air raid warnings were sounded, most people went outside to watch the action.

I am not sure if people, today, appreciate how large the Zeppelins were. We are talking 600 feet or more. To put that in perspective, a Zeppelin was the length of two!! football pitches. So when the spoltlights picked up the airship, and especially if one was hit and caught fire, (and because the Zeppelins flew so high, most of the time) literally millions of people witnessed the event.

The crews of L31 and L32 were indeed buried in the graveyard you mention. Public opinion was divided about giving them a place in a civilian graveyard. In fact one woman went so far as to throw eggs and shout abuse during the service. The crews were buried in the far south (bottom) of the graveyard - as far away from the other graves as possible. The ground had to be specially consecrated as it was outside of the boundary of the graveyeard proper.

The crew of L32 were also buried at Potters Bar, even though they died in Essex. The local vicar refused permission to bury them and it took the intervention of the Potters Bar vicar to allow their burial to take place.

Frau Mathy, widow of the commander of L31, visited the graves after the war ended. She was shocked to find that no proper headstones had been erected; the wooden posts had also been vandalised and some were missing. A promise was made to erect better headstones.

Sadly, Mathy's grave became a shrine (and outlet for propoganda) for the major post war German political party. A few ceremonies - laying wreaths etc - were held there by this party and its followers in the 1930s, when the Hindenburg airship was doing European and World tours.

The crews were later moved to the German graveyard at Cannock Chase. There is no evidence today, that I could find anyway, that the crews had ever been buried at Potter Bar. No humps or lumps in the ground.....

All the airship crews are now buried (mass graves) in their own section (to the right of the visitor centre). It's well worth a visit, and just a few minutes from the M6.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Cannock Chase Memorial

[Guest Pete Wood]

Headstone for L31 which crashed at Potters Bar