"Exploiting" the CWGC Database

[ianw]

Mindful of the fact that the CWGC's activities are always constrained by lack of funds, might there not be acceptable ways for their fantastic database and the large number of hits upon it to generate some additional revenue.

For example, I would be happy to pay a modest annual fee to be registered as a "link" to my Great Uncle's register records to enable me to be identified to any person who accesses their records. This could help bring lost family members and other interested parties together.

I suppose the problem with any such scheme would be the staffing costs of running it. Perhaps this could be overcome by the CWGC outsourcing it to a private company or volunteer body. Another problem . of course, is that any revenues generated would not be treated as "additional" but as an excuse for our Government to reduce their CWGC contribution. Ah well , another idea bites the dust !

[Terry Denham]

The restrictions of their Charter could also come into play.

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

is there any chance of removing this topic before some Civil Service gnome in the Treasury reads it - and takes it seriously !

.......... and does anybody have any firm news (or even a decent roumour !) on stories that the MoD service records sections at Glasgow & Hayes are to be subbed out to a private contractor ?

regards - Tom

[Guest Hill 60]

and does anybody have any firm news (or even a decent roumour !) on stories that the MoD service records sections at Glasgow & Hayes are to be subbed out to a private contractor ?

I thought the Hayes branch was being disbanded. Then again, after living in Hayes for 4 years when I was a bairn, I wouldn't mind if the whole town was disbanded.

[David_Bluestein]

For example, I would be happy to pay a modest annual fee

Bite your tongue! Before someone reads this post. If I had a dime for every time I did a search I would have my car paid off!!!

Lets be satisfied that the CWGC offers theses names to the public for free, so that all people have access to the fallen, and their memory will not become the source of any agencies or companies revenue and or profit.

Respectfully

David

PS: If you want to suppot the CWGC efforts, which is a noble cause, make a donation!

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

is there any chance of removing this topic before some Civil Service gnome in the Treasury reads it - and takes it seriously !

Umm gnome is it.......speaking as a Civil Servant, I think I might ask the IRS to look into..................

Do gnomes wear pink trousers?

Ian

[ianw]

David,

You took my quote rather out of context. Searches of the database should , of course, be free of charge. If you re-read what I posted , you will note that I said that personally , I would be prepared to pay a small fee to be registered as an interested party to anyone who pulled my 2 great -uncles details off the database - a sort of electronic sentinel. Imagine how much additional information could be exchanged if such a service were available.

[David_Bluestein]

Ian,

Point taken.

Regards

David

[ianw]

No problem , David.

What I am trying to explore is the "added value" that could be derived from the massive success of the CWGC Register on-line. This value could surely be realised without in any way changing or prejudicing its current method of operation.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Terry is right.

In my opinion, the charter is too restrictive and needs to be adjusted if more funds are to be raised - and they are badly needed!!

The only way this will happen is if enough people lobby the CWGC.

Around 4 years ago, I heard of the MapleLeaf project. This group takes photos of all the Canadian war graves. It's a great idea, but it relies on a veritable army of volunteers who all have their own ideas as to what makes a good photo. I met up with the guy behind the Maple Leaf project, and an Ozzie guy who wanted to do the same thing for the Australian graves.

To me, though, it seemed a huge waste of resources. Both of these guys, the Canadian and the Australian (and their volunteer friends) would be visiting the same places much of the time - especially in Western Europe - but only taking selected photos.

I therefore took a proposal to the CWGC with the hope of persuading them to take a digital photo of every single stone and memorial; yes I know that is over 1,000,000 photos.

The vast majority of the stones are at the same height, and evenly spaced. The difficulty, as you know if you've taken enough photos at cemeteries, for any human photographer is crouching up and down - and carrying your equipment around. So I came up with the idea of mounting a digital camera onto a disabled four wheel scooter, which is battery powered. The scooter, which is low down, could easily be adapted to carry sun-shields (if you have to take a photo in bright conditions etc), and carry the camera on a bracket (adjustable). This way you could almost have a production line going - and really speed up the process. The scooter is quiet and reliable and can carry all the equipment that you'd need.

I had some support from a very nice chap at the CWGC (in the media section) who got me in front of the top two guys (at the time). My idea was for the CWGC to allow me to carry out this project. Now obviously I need to make a living, and this was the stumbling block. The CWGC couldn't work out a way to pay for my wages and expenses.

I had persuaded Land Rover to give me a vehicle free of charge. I had also persuaded a petroleum company to pay for the petrol. A hotel chain offered me free accomodation. Of course, all these companies wanted an association with the CWGC and to publicise the event. But sponsorship of any kind is frowned upon by the CWGC.

As the CWGC weren't prepared to employ me, the only way I could fund the work (if I was to do the job) was to charge for the photos. I suggested that the CWGC should make a charge of £5 for a digital photograph - printed on high quality paper using archival inks (so they last); sponsors were also found for this - to anyone who wanted a photo of a certain grave.

I asked for a salary of £25K. Not unreasonable, especially when it involved being away for most of the year. My salary would have been subsidised (and in my estimation paid in full) by the £5 per photo charge. Any additional revenue would go into the CWGC coffers.

The decision-makers at the CWGC were polite, but firm. No way. This would affect their funding and be against the charter. I walked away frustrated and disappointed.

Now I know that the CWGC did, a little later, try to offer a service where a gardener would take a photo of a grave, and then sell the photo for (you guessed it) £5. But a lot of people (relatives) complained about the charge - and got upset that soldier x laid down his life and so why should they be forced to pay for the photo. I do understand this point of view, which is why I had suggested to the CWGC at the time of my meeting that this £5 charge should be (a suggested) voluntary amount - in a similar way that our top museums are free at the moment, but you can still leave a donation.

Photos are now free, I understand, if you are a relative and you ask for one. The CWGC doesn't though, as far as I am aware, advertise this fact.

I was given a tour of the Maidenhead offices, and saw what (four years ago) they were doing to embrace the digital revolution. They were scanning in tired old prints (6 x 4 inches) at 150dpi. I pointed out that the day would soon be with us when newspapers, other media types, historians and relatives would want to download images from the CWGC and that unless they intended to repeat the project, the resolution was too low. But I was bashing my head against a brick wall.

I also suggested that the CWGC should make the stones' epitaphs available. I pointed out that again, for a voluntary donation, if you wanted this extra information and a photo of the stone, it would not be difficult to adapt the database to allow this to happen. Again, I was told "thanks, but no thanks."

I now make teapots. One of these, if you have been on my website, is the 'Ole Bill' WW1 Tank teapot. I would love to have an association with the CWGC - even if it is just a link from their website to mine - and I would happily give the CWGC a donation (musn't say a commission) for every teapot bought by a CWGC referral.

But until the charter is changed, the CWGC top brass will just complain about all the "horrible types [their words] who are making money off the back of the CWGC."

I admit that I am probably prejudiced, but why can't the CWGC move with the times and allow people to give/donate money for services that are over and beyond those currently offered - and never thought of, when the charter was drawn up??

What are your thoughts...??

[Terry Denham]

CWGC cannot change their Charter at will even should they so wish.

Any lobbying has to be directed at Parliament (and the Treasury) but it would need the support of CWGC themselves. Not always an easy thing as five Commonwealth governments are also involved - remember it is not a UK organisation but multi-national.