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Remembered Today:

Mystery British Cap Badge


leanes-trench
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Greetings all. The cap in this picture rests on a podium next to a British soldier in France during WWI. I can't see any other insignia. There appears to be single initials in the top, and both arms, of the cross, but I can't read them. There are no other identifying marks, and nothing written on the reverse of the photo. Can anyone help me ID it?

I will post a full-length shot of the photo in the next message.

Many thanks,

Pat

post-5223-1127935925.jpg

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Is it real? It looks to me as if it's been super-imposed, possibly by the photographer. If anything it has the look of a 60th Rifles badge, but the two-tone nature of the badge doesn't fit. Add to that the fact that the crown looks as if it doesn't really fit, and I wonder if it is, in fact, a photographer's make up.

This isn't altogether unknown. Are you sure the picture was taken in France? I have a lovely picture of my granddad which has been in the family since 1915 (the picture, that is - granddad was around well beofre that!), which we believe was taken with him wearing a photographer's set of khaki as grandad wasn't in long enough to be issued with kit.

Anyway, that's a starter for 10, but I bet I'm wrong (I usually am :angry::( )

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Absolutely original, with a French photographer's backing, and not superimposed or a photographer's mock-up. I can't find anything that comes close, except The Wiltshire Regiment's badge (and this is pretty far off that).

Regards,

Pat

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I can't find anything that comes close, except The Wiltshire Regiment's badge (and this is pretty far off that).

The Wiltshire Regiment Badge is the only one that springs to mind I would suggest that it is; as mooted a "Badge" used by the Photographer for Military Photographs, as initially many men hadnt got complete uniforms to wear ,The Badge does have the appearance of a "Composite",the Scroll is 100% Wiltshire,but the Crown & Cross are both anamolous to it & of apparently differing Metals to boot! Bit of an Enigma? ;)

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Also looks a little like 12th Bn, Londons.

Rgds

Tim

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Hi I couldn't help myself :D

it looks like it is made of different badges of different metals, the crown appears to overlap the front of the badge on a strange angle in your picture.

The Tunic is unusual with V reinforced cuffs and pointed pocket flaps looks early? or is he a Canadian?

looks like a pistol lanyard he has on.

Cheers Jonathan

post-6628-1127966556.jpg

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I am sorry but that is not one I have ever seen it has a hybrid appearance, looks like MC rear with either the Wilts or 60th Rifles on top.

Had a look through the books, could this be Canadian or a Militia badge.

I will wait and watch this space.

Cheers,

Rob

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Also an odd looking belt and lanyard. 

Tim

I am very far from an equipment and uniform expert but I have never heard of men getting as far as France without their issue uniform. Why would any soldier want to wear someone else's cap badge? I have never seen a lanyard worn like that. A very intriguing puzzle and I wait the answer with keen interest. I am sure there is one and just as sure that one or more of the forum experts will provide it.

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I think Chaplains are all bronze not bi metal and they do not have a scroll underneath

They are normally Officers rank to I think.

Jonathan.

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Jonathan you are right Chaplains are officer status and if he was was a chaplain would he not have a dog collar on?

I am not sure about the uniform at all I have pretty much discounted it as a UK regiment so I think we have to look at obscure colonial contingents.

Rob

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a British soldier in France during WWI.  

What makes you consider that he is is France,is it a French Studio/Photographer?

He has the appearance of a newly enlisted Man in that a}He has no Shoulder Titles;b}his Boots are Brand~Spanking New,a Soldier in France's Boots would be "Broken In" by route Marching Etc;& show signs of wear & tear,The Cross on the Badge has the appearance of one of those "Kultur" Iron Crosses sold as Anti German Propaganda,to raise funds for Charities,with a Crown & Scroll from a real army Badge added,I am not saying that the photo as been doctored but that the Photographer held a stock of "Uniforms" for Enlistees awaiting their proper Kit to be photographed in before going Overseas or for training,for the folks back home.

None of the Below!

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Wouldn't consider myself to be an expert but I have never seen a British Army badge with four crowns on it.............unless somebody has 'eard different that is.

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Wouldn't consider myself to be an expert but I have never seen a British Army badge with four crowns on it.............unless somebody has 'eard different that is.

Go back to the top photo,the 4 Crowns jobby is a doctored example by a Forum member showing how easy it would be? :blink:

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Cunning...............still not seen anything like it even with the one crown.

The darker bit that "appears" to have been placed on the part with the crown reminds me of YCV as seen on the flag at "Tommies".

Could it be something like this fixed on to a regimental badge?

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Greetings, all, Pat the Original Poster here. The photo has a French backing, so he is definitely not newly enlisted. As for the lanyard, it wasn't unusual for men to take on such affectations for a portrait. They also did some off things with their chinstraps.

I've checked THE reference on the subject, Cox's "Military Badges," and this isn't a Colonial one either (unless I missed something). I am now wondering if he is some kind of civvy ambulance driver or some other such occupation.

Keep trying!

Pat

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I hope this isn't a trick question <_<

Still go back to my original answer - I think it's a made-up one, but why, where, and by whom I have no idea.

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I have a theory!

The badge was originally all one colour. It then got broken, leaving only those parts connected to the lugs still attached to the cap (ie the crown, and bottom quarter). The dark features in the photo are not the badge, but the stain left by the badge before it broke.

Perhaps someone with a better computer (and eyesight) than mine could have another look!

Regards

Gavin

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I hope this isn't a trick question <_<

Still go back to my original answer - I think it's a made-up one, but why, where, and by whom I have no idea.

Im inclined to agree,it bears little or no relation to any UK/Commonwealth/Empire badge of my experience,I still maintain it is a recruit's Photo in a theatrical/erzatz uniform supplied by the Photographer be he English or French,I am sure there were many French & european photographers working in the Capital & other UK Cities the badge is definitely a made up job not an issue badge;

To paraphrase Alice through the looking glass: "Spuriouser & Spuriouser!"

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Two Possibilites:

1) Badge of the Sherwood Foresters (Nottingham & Derbyshire) Regiment

or

2) Prehaps he was from Canada-such as the Maltese Cross Badge of the 41st Regiment (Brockville Rifles)??? -a English type soldier with a Photographer with a

French name? :unsure:

A Crown on top of the Cross-yes---but on the arms of Cross as well?????

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