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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Not this again!


Duncan
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As Baldrick would say

"I didn't know that you could buy these as single items. I thought they only came in boxes of 12"

Nigel

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Please forgive my ignorance - what is wrong with the item?

The next of kin of each soldier who died were awarded one Death Plaque bearing the man or woman's name.

Kitchener appears to have had dozens as they keep coming up for sale. The genuine one is believed to be in the posession of his decendants. All the rest are fakes.

Nigel

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I think there must have been more than one Kitchener plaque "commissioned". As far as I am aware you cannot fake a death plaque - well you could but it would be with an inscribed name rather than a raised name.

We have had several threads on Kitchener's plaque and death plaques that you will find from the search engine.

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There's a cottage industry in India faking death plaques! Search the forum and it's on the last Kitchener plaque post (I think). As to' cannot be faked' - mate, I could do one in my shed with little more than some sand, wax and a decent heat source...

The basic problem with the piece of tat linked above is that ALL Kitcheners awards were held by his brother after his death and NEVER released (sold). Check the Kitchener Society via Google if you need more info, anyone.

This plaque has been listed at least four times this year, every time forum members and K fans email the seller and he/she removes it.

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As to' cannot be faked' - mate, I could do one in my shed with little more than some sand, wax and a decent heat source...

Apologies - I will rephrase my original comment.

No doubt there are resin plaques made in India (or garden sheds) with the intention to fool the purchaser but I doubt a plaque can be faked to the extent it would pass muster with any reasonable collector.

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When there's real money involved, people will fake anything. With laser cutters for mould making, access to the right technology would make making the mould (always the hard bit) relatively easy. The casting is very simple although there are always the challenges of metal purity, the pour etc. but trust me this can/has been done... and would pass muster.

To my mind, the famed 'Kitchener plaque' is at best a sample or additional plaque run off at one of the manufactures circa WW1. ---edited-----

The best example I can give you re: the ability to make the mold is the making of the last Star Wars movie - copied all the original Vader props and improved them...

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A quick perusal of the numerous other threads on this subject will show that this plaque is not a fake, but it is unlikely to be the one that was issued directly to the family.

This plaque has been listed at least four times this year, every time forum members and K fans email the seller and he/she removes it.

This statement is not correct. It is true that the item has been up for sale on numerous occasions on ebay but has just never attracted a bidder. The seller then relists the item at a later date and usually at an inflated price.

Andy

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A quick perusal of the numerous other threads on this subject will show that this plaque is not a fake, but it is unlikely to be the one that was issued directly to the family.

This statement is not correct. It is true that the item has been up for sale on numerous occasions on ebay but has just never attracted a bidder. The seller then relists the item at a later date and usually at an inflated price.

Andy

Max is correct.

A large proportion of this seller's stock have been listed on eBay many times before, some of it has been appearing for years now. The only thing that changes is that the price rises every so often.

Matthew

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Why doesn't e-bay pull the plug?

Serious question .. I'm not an e-bayer.

Des

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No doubt there are resin plaques made in India (or garden sheds) with the intention to fool the purchaser but I doubt a plaque can be faked to the extent it would pass muster with any reasonable collector.

I am not a collector, I have handled (played with) 2, they belonged to my grandfathers. Using existing plaques for material and a model, I see no real difficulty in making one to order. The museums of the world have basements full of fake artifacts which duped the experts of the day. Whether the effort would have sufficient reward is another story.

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I'd also add that (a) as it isn't the one issued to the family and (B) the details are incorrect (please see the other threads re: title etc.) .)---edited:please don't use terms such as this when describing items on ebay or elsewhere as it can expose this forum owner to legal action--------

If a 'plaque' made (allegedly) circa WW1, using the same materials and machines used for other plaques and similar to another issued to the family is indeed 'real' then I'm off to find a foundry ASAP! I now an easy source of WW1 brass, can get a set of molds made and will be flooding eBay with 'plaques' ASAP... Anyone fancy a 'genuine' Albert Ball for £10k?

;-) of course!

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I think Kitchener's medals and awards are on display at the excellent RE museum in Gillingham, Kent. Presumably they are on loan from the family.

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