Clive Maier Posted 31 July , 2003 Share Posted 31 July , 2003 I am psyching myself up for a first visit to Kew. I have studied the ‘Grandad’ pages on The Long, Long Trail, I have looked at the NA/PRO leaflets, and I have noted what pals have advised on the forum. So in principle, I know roughly what to do. But I have 300+ names to research and I haven’t a clue how long it is likely to take. I know some of the pals are very expert in these matters so I would welcome estimates on how long a beginner but reasonably quick learner might take to research one name thoroughly. I am not intending to look at war diaries on the ‘first pass’. Is it more efficient to take one name at a time through all the stages, or to take a bunch of names through one stage at a time? If you see what I mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 31 July , 2003 Share Posted 31 July , 2003 Clive, 300 is a lot of names - it is going to take more than one visit but I would hate to suggest exactly how long ... You've got to think that for each of them you will need to Look at Medal Index Card (microfiche) Look at the BWM/VM roll and (if relevant) SWB roll for each (original documents) once you've got the reference from the MIC - and the 14 or 14/15 Star rolls as well if you're being really thorough. Look for their personal papers ORs on microfilm, potentially 4 or more rolls per man (less for ones who died) Officers as original documents And there are few other things you might want to check e.g. gallanty awards I suggest you work through a couple of individuals to get a 'feel' for the PRO system and the records then decide what works for you, but obviously for those records in alphabetical order (MICs and personal papers) it makes sense to do all the Bloggins in one go. Your first one will probably take an hour, once you get into the swing it will get much faster. The other thing to think about is how you're going to capture the information - copy everything (expensive), written notes, laptop ?? One problem is that the more there is on a guy the slower things are. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 31 July , 2003 Share Posted 31 July , 2003 I suggest you work through a couple of individuals to get a 'feel' for the PRO system and the records then decide what works for you. Good points there from Jock. Everyone will have their own system which they find suits them best.... and from personal experience I find that you learn from your mistakes in this regard! I can only add to what Jock has said based on my own limited personal experience at the PRO/NA. I have a similar number of names to research and find that you need to have a very logical and methodical approach to avoid going over the same ground too many times. If a number of names have common links, such as they belong to the same regiment/battalion then it makes sense to look at war diaries and (in some cases) medal rolls, etc for them all at the same time where this is possible. Your sanity and eyesight is also worth considering! I would hate to envisage looking at 300+ MIC entries in one block. Finally, be prepared for a slog and try not to bite off more than you can chew in one visit. Good luck Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 31 July , 2003 Share Posted 31 July , 2003 1. If you get there early, try and get a reader that is near to the MIC's or microfilms depending on what you're looking at first. You're going to be doing an awful lot of backwards and forwards ! 2. Try and sort them into alphabetical order, you'll then be able to go along the drawers in order rather than jump between one row and another. 3. Enjoy it and take plenty of breaks. Let us know when you're going, I'm sure one of the 'colour party' will show you the ropes if we're there. 4. Good luck with the printers ! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 300 names is one hell of at lot to go through. I wouldn't like to put a time on how long it would take to do MICs/Medal Rolls/Service Papers. A few weeks ago I did 40 MICs in about 5 hours including breaks and that was knowing their regiments. The Smiths/Jones/Browns etc can take a lot of effort. I've got an Albert White to look for on Saturday, no regiment details so it's a long trawl through service records and no guarantee of success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 Excellent advice from JB, Marc & Mick. Just to give you an idea of how hard things can be I had the dubious honour of tackling one John Smith in the ASC. Three Saturdays to get MIC, roll, SWB roll, WO 363 and War Diary. Good luck, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Byrne Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 One tip that I would give is to research officers first. They are listed in alphabetical order are easier to find and in many cases you can view the original documents. Be warned though, you will have to order the documents so I would get there early, get a seat in the reading room and order three documents (I think that is the limit) and then get a cup of tea and when you come back your documents will be ready. Also, if you are researching officers bring a digital camera and photograph the docs (no flash allowed though). Don't sit there and type them all out like I started doing. My neck was killing me after an hour or two! If find that researching officers first gives the individual a sense of having achieved somethng as they are easier to find. I remember on several occasions coming back from Kew with nothing having tried to research other ranks...it ain't nice After that, you could then start on the other ranks. This will be a lengthy process if you hae 300 names to look up and will take you ages. I would suggest getting the missus and the kids working on it to...and don't let them have any tea breaks either!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 Ive only been the once and felt the best way was to try out the system with someone you know the details well, then to move on to those who are new... I have read the thread now and hjave learnt a lot myself.. Oh and dont forget to take adequte provisions!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 300 names, well rather you than me! Is it a war memorial? Which one is it? Can we assume that you have done what you can already - determined units etc. where possible; checked Soldiers Died/Officers Died and CWGC where appropriate - the background info helps. Did you also want to look up Unit War Diaries? One useful tip is to explore the on-line PROCAT for things like war diaries and officers records. After your first visit you will have a readers card and will be able to pre-order catalogue items on line in readiness for your next visit, which can help speed some things. Also bear in mind that there are on-line resources like the London Gazette which will give details of some decoration citations. I think I am trying to say that you should do as much as you can away from the PRO. The best bit of advice (above) is to get someone else to show you the ropes (colour party - attention! ), it may cost you a few coffees but it's invaluable. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 1 August , 2003 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2003 Pals, Thanks for all the good advice. I was concerned about the very feasibility of trying to research 300+ people. From your replies, it seems that it can be done, but only if I have a lot of staying power. The number by the way, is the total of names on my hometown memorial for both wars, plus those who apparently should have been on there. This is for a town of only 7,000 people at the time of the Great War. It brings home to you the incredible and inexcusable extent of the slaughter. I will have checked everyone in SDGW and CWGC before I start at Kew and I will not be looking at war diaries in the first instance. On this basis, It seems that I might manage somewhere between three and ten names in an afternoon. I can’t imagine I will ever match Mark’s rate of 40 in five hours. Marc Thompson was kindly concerned for my sanity and eyesight. The eyesight is failing – and it really is singular in my case – and there are those who think the sanity is going the same way. I have found when looking at local newspapers on microfilm that the eyesight has had it after about three hours. After that, I am so prone to miss things through eye fatigue that there is little point in pressing on. I have just got a digital camera, so I can photograph documents instead of trying to record everything on the spot. Thanks for that ace tip from several pals. All in all, it looks as if I will be trekking out to Kew for a long time. Just as well I have an old duffer’s travel pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 Clive, If you revealed your location we could all keep an eye open for your men. It is amazing how men of one village or town can often appear in another Pal's path. We all have an array of books, newspapers, materials etc etc. in our armoury. Last night, for instance I chanced on a clutch of Charles Fair's 19th Londons in my History of the LRB, so you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 Clive I hope you're aware that you won't find any personal info (service records) at Kew for WW2 men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 It is amazing how men of one village or town can often appear in another Pal's path. ... Last night, for instance I chanced on a clutch of Charles Fair's 19th Londons in my History of the LRB, so you never know... Clive - as Kate says this happens usually quite unexpectedly - as well as her example (thanks again Kate!) I have on two unconnecetd occasions this week come across information about Jock Bruce's 5th Seaforths. The first was when I was looking at the Absent Voters Lists and found his guys in two different London Boroughs. The second was a couple of hours ago when I found that the 2/19th had relieved the 5th Seaforths on Vimy Ridge, and had described this in the 2/19th history. Small world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 1 August , 2003 Share Posted 1 August , 2003 One exception to the lack of WW2 personal info at Kew is the causes of death of naval ratings. These are available in ADM 104/127- 104/149 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InkyBill Posted 2 August , 2003 Share Posted 2 August , 2003 Whats the SWB Roll ? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 2 August , 2003 Share Posted 2 August , 2003 SWB=Silver War Badge. It has a Roll not unlike the Medal Rolls, ie a listing of recipients. It sometimes gives quite useful extra detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 2 August , 2003 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2003 The generosity on this forum is amazing. I will ask for help if I am stuck but I believe the legwork should be mine. I want to do it. I feel a powerful obligation to the names on the memorial. To begin with of course, I was only interested in the fate of my father’s eldest brother but I rapidly realised that all the others were just as special. It was under the contrails of the Battle of Britain that my mother first showed me our name on the memorial but that was just about all that was ever said of Oscar Maier. Since that day, 46 names have been added to the memorial and most of them are already forgotten. Now, over 60 years on from that summer day, I feel it is my job to recall what I can of all of them. It’s also a privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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