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Steve Bramley

Eamon de Valera

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Archer

The Captain Hitzen of this thread was clearly Edo John Hitzen of the Lincolnshire Regiment [as is made clear on his MIC]. He claimed his three medals (War, Victory and Terrritorial Force War Medals) from Hartwarden, No. 27, Welholme Road, Grimsby.

When the national census was taken in April 1891 his father, Herman[n] W[ilhelm] Hitzen, was described as a ship broker, born in Oldenburg in Germany. His mother, Nellie [nee Johnson] was born in Market Rason in Lincolnshire.

By 1913 Hitzen senior was called William and he was the German Consul (NOT Naval Attache!!) in Grimsby [see Kelly's Directory of Lincolnshire, 1913].

Hoch hoch!!

post-3636-1241710584.png

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Sparky53

I have found this thread fascinating having visited Dublin this Easter Sunday. We had a bus tour and only time to see speeches etc outside the general post office and visit Kilmainham Gaol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilmainham_Gaol

Jane

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Crunchy
His role at the surrender has a wonderful epilog; Not at liberty to disclose it just now,

Wig,

Can you disclose it now - 3 years down the track?

Cheers

Chris

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Steve Gullick
.

I can do serious history too, I just don't care for The history of The British Empire by Sinn Feinn.

Sunray Out

I would imagine that Sinn Feinn and the Irish Republicans don't particularly care for Irish history being written by Britain either.

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Andrew Hesketh

Can we please stick to the topic under discussion Steve. As discussed elsewhere, we don't want this forum used for wider political debates. Thank you.

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Steve Gullick
Can we please stick to the topic under discussion Steve. As discussed elsewhere, we don't want this forum used for wider political debates. Thank you.

Sorry.

I don't think I am eligible to use the PM system yet, but enough said.

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Andrew Hesketh

Steve,

You should be able to PM as you have gone past the 10 post barrier. No need to apologise, but this new section is being watched particularly carefully. As I'm sure you will be aware there is great scope for controversy within it.

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Glesga Highlander
Steve,

You should be able to PM as you have gone past the 10 post barrier. No need to apologise, but this new section is being watched particularly carefully. As I'm sure you will be aware there is great scope for controversy within it.

Maybe I am just dafter than I usually am but can someone please explain to me why we cannot discuss the Irish and Ulster Regiments on here without someone considering it controversial...at the end of the day Irish Nationalists and Ulster Loyalists died side by side in the 'killing fields' of France and Flanders. :poppy:

It seems to me that we can only discuss the finer points of the Irish/Ulster regiments involvement in the Great War at the discretion of... 'At an Englishman's Command'. Only through discussion and continual arguement will we 'Celts' solve the never ending battle of Northern Ireland and Eire but hey don't worry about it we'll maybe take anothe 2,000 years to do so but peace will be acheived eventually...without the help of you Anglo Saxons. :D

Anyway guys I am particularly interested in the men from Glasgow who left this city to enlist in the 36th (Ulster Division). I know of some recruiting marches and training drills for the Ulster Volunteer Force prior to the outbreak of the War but know that there were others which for some reason were not reported in the local press so any information would be appreciated.

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Andrew Hesketh
Maybe I am just dafter than I usually am but can someone please explain to me why we cannot discuss the Irish and Ulster Regiments on here without someone considering it controversial...at the end of the day Irish Nationalists and Ulster Loyalists died side by side in the 'killing fields' of France and Flanders. :poppy:

You can. That wasn't my point.

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Liam O Meara

The photograph was taken at Richmond Barracks, Dublin. De Valera had been in the custody of the Lincolnshire Regt. at the Royal Dublin Showgrounds but was taken to Richmond for his court martial. The Sherwood Foresters were the troops holding Richmond barracks and providing escorts for the court, firing parties for the executions and so on. De Valera was aware the photograph was being taken and deliberately glared at the photographer. It was his favourate photograph.

QUOTE (Frank_East @ Dec 6 2005, 12:29 AM) Are we sure that the photograph of de Valera under arrest was taken in Ireland?.

de Valera was incarcerated in Lincoln Jail from 17 May 1917 until he escaped on 3 February 1919.

In October 1950 he was received with courtesy at Lincoln Jail on an official visit and asked if the prison authorities had changed the master key system.He was told they had 31 years previous.

I know it's a long time since this was posted. I Only joined recently. Can you give me info on how you know this was his favorite photo and why you are sure it's Richmond Barracks.

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wig

I know it's a long time since this was posted. I Only joined recently. Can you give me info on how you know this was his favorite photo and why you are sure it's Richmond Barracks.

One of De Valera's grandchildren is now a Judge of the Irish High court. I often appear before him in various trials and we have often taken tea together to discuss Irish History. It was he who gave me the background to the photograph. Fairly good souce!

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corisande

Its not what you know, its who you know :)

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NRP.HKP

Hi,

I have tried to locate the service records (in the NA catalogue) of Capt. Edo John Hitzen 2/5th Lincs. He is not listed amongst the Territorial Officers (WO 374). He is on the Grimsby AVL as being with the 5th Battalion. There is no reference to him in either 1/5th/2/5th war diary.

Does any pal have any further information about Capt Hitzen, or have a clue as to where i would look for his service record?

Below is Capt Hitzen's connection with Eamon De Valera (The Times 16/4/66)

MR DE VALERA AND OLD ENEMY MEET

FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT

DUBLIN APRIL 15

In pouring rain, Mr de Valera, President of the Republic of Ireland, who with 100 riflemen fought British troops in Dublin during the 1916 uprising today embraced the man who accepted his surrender, Captain E J Hitzen, aged 80, now of Grimsby, was the guest of the Irish Government for the commemorations.

As Mr de Valera unveiled a commemorative plaque on a bakery building Captain Hitzen stood with his head uncovered in the rain. After the unveiling they inspected a guard of honour of 40 of Mr de Valera's Easter Week battalion survivors.

Captain Hitzen met old friends who were his 1916 enemies. The old IRA men had entertained him in Ireland at the silver jubilee of the rising.

He said that in 1916 he was held at bay for four days with his company of The Lincolnshire Regiment, aiding The Sherwood Foresters, by 'this garrison of invisible men whose snipers were terrific". He added: "When I met de Valera in the hospital where he made his surrender he was gaunt, unshaven, curt but courteous. His first words to me were: "Do what you will with me, but treat my men as prisoners of war'. When marching Mr de Valera and his men to gaol that day, Captain Hitzen said : "The President walked as if he were the leader of an army".

The members of Mr de Valera's battalion exchange cards at Easter and Christmas with Captain Hitzen and send him shamrock on St Patrick's Day. Today he had tea with Mr de Valera and Mr lemass, the Prime Minister.

Regards,

Steve.

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NRP.HKP

Capt von Hitzen,

I note that Peter Chapman,in his ' Odd Man Out' Column in this evening's Grimsby Telegraph returns to the question of the good Captain's activities during the Uprising and subsequent events.

Yellowbellies and the like may wish to refer,I regret I am unable to scan.

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