Guest Ian Topham Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 Can anyone hasard a guess as to the badges on the attached photo, namely: 1. Right upper arm cloth badge,and 2. Left lower arm cloth badge. The photo is of 172003 Ernest Topham, Machine Gun Corps, taken July 1917 (according to research he may have been a member of the 9th, 32nd or 33rd Bn's M.G.C) Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 Hi Ian I have had a look at your photo and would like to put in my two-peneth (or what it's worth!) Based on what your research tells you, I think that the cloth insignia on the upper arm might be a red diamond, as worn by 14th Infantry Brigade in 32nd Division. Although the infantry wore coloured bars under the diamond to signify their seniority within the brigade and company by colour, the 14th Brigade Machine Gun Company would have worn the diamond on it's own. Machine-Gun Battalions were not formed until early 1918. 33rd Division did have a scheme of battle patches in late 1916/early 1917 but these appear to have lapsed by the date of the photo. 9th Division units did not adopt wearing the divisional sign on their uniform until 1918, and at this time the infantry wore coloured "arcs" on the upper arms of their tunics to signify companies. Unfortunately, I can't make out the other badge, but it looks like a marksman's proficiency badge to me - crossed rifles. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 Ian, For what its worth 172003 was a very late 1918 MGC number. I have looked at the service of men with similar numbers (171689 Sgt William Duck & 172083 Pte Fred Cutts) and they went to France in September & October 1918 respectively. I would suggest therefore that the photo you have, taken in 1917, was probably of your relative before he joined the Machine Gun Corps. Ian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 Only problem with that Ian, is that he is wearing an MGC cap badge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 There's definitely a MGC cap badge there on the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 DOH!! Right. There is however something that doesn't add up here. Either the number 172003 is incorrect or the date is. I will be at the PRO Saturday and will look up Pte Topham. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 A marksman's proficiency badge [crossed rifles] is shown on the left sleeve. Now for the spanner in the works. Like many of you, at first I thought that it was the cap badge of the MGC! However, there is a slight possibility that the cap badge could be that of the School of Musketry! Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Topham Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 Well the Service Number is right, (as Chris Baker has provided me with copies of the Medal Cards), and the date of July 1917 was written on the back of the photo.... There is one piece of info that I forgot to supply on the original post and that " Ernest " was born in 1900, therefore I can only assume that there maybe a little bit of fibbing going on about his actual age when he joined up. It is very frustrating, it seems that in this case it is easier to research those that were killed than those that survived. But thanks for all your help, any further info would always be helpful. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 29 July , 2003 Share Posted 29 July , 2003 Nope, definitely an MGC cap badge. The School of Musketry had a rather 'enlarged' crown with more acutely angled rifles. Can't add much further on the cloth flash (beyond concurring with Andrew) but can confirm that we've found no distinctive 14 Coy flash.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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