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Would a gassed soldier get a wound stripe?


gporta
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Salutations,

Looking at the recent thread on Wound stripes I wondered about aparticular case. Entries in War diaries for wounded men usually state men "wounded"...but then I have seen some casualty entries which separate men being "Wounded" and "gassed"...

In a previous thread dealing with gas casualties Forum member Terry Reeves wrote:

As far as wound stripes are concerned, CH Foulkes who raised the Royal Engineer Special Companies, and later commanded the Special Brigade, recommended that these should not be issued to men who had been gassed. His reasoning was that once effective gas masks had been issued, and that proper anti-gas training was in place, there was no excuse for being gassed. As it happens, his recommendation was not accepted, and I suspect that he did not really believe it would be. I think he was making the point that anti-gas training drills in units were not always taken as seriously as they should have been.

This leaves me wondering which could be, officially -and exactly-, the status of a man who became a non-fatal casualty due to gas... would he be entitled to wear a wound stripe? In old threads I' have seen positive mention of it, yet... Anybody knows of an example? Would gassed men appear, for instance, in the Weekly Casualty List? (there are no separate entries for gassed cases, there, just "wounded")

Thanks in advance,

Gloria

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Gloria

My grandfather received a wound stripe after being gassed on the the Somme in 1916 serving with 1/7th Worcesters. He left the dates he was wounded on the back of a photgraph of himself, which ties in with a brief account of him in the Cadbury's works magazine mentioning him being gassed, his service record and also the battalion war diary, which gives an account of the incident. It resulted in the whole unit being taken out of action except for about 100 men. However, whilst being gassed qualified for wound stripe, the word "gas" is not always specifically mentioned in respect of woundings.

Terry Reeves

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Gloria

However, whilst being gassed qualified for wound stripe, the word "gas" is not always specifically mentioned in respect of woundings.

Terry Reeves

Hi Terry,

What kind of phrase might have been used? Would it have been a case of mention anything but the word "gas", or was there a specific set of terms used?

regards

doogal

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I have the first five Official Lists of Casualties for the CEF, covering 1915 and to the end of June,1916, and a variety of headings are used.

Besides the obvious ones (Killed in Action, Died of Wounds, Wounded, Missing,etc.) there are other categories, including Dangerously Wounded, Severely Wounded, Suffering from gas fumes, Suffering from Shock,Seriously Wounded,etc. There is a heading called Deaths, which I assume mean deaths due to illness,etc.

Od to see the various subdivisions of wounded (seriously, severely, dangerously). There are also minor heading such as Contusions.

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Thanks to you all for the prompt and helpful answers. Particularly to Terry Reeves for his most illuminating family example (which is first-hand knowledge!, as mentioned).

Wandering off-topic, and in case someone else might be interested: I find it interesting to know that the CEF had such a detailed source, as the one (the other) Terry owns... Were these CEF casualty lists published throughout the war? Can they be found -apart from those in possesion of particulars- in any Record Office, Library, etc? I'm not searching the CEF, but then someone else who did might be interested in knowing about them.

I browsed the english Weekly Casualty Lists (which evidently also included the CEF and AEF entries) and there the categories were more reduced (or at least were so by 1918, which weas the period I was looking for): namely "Killed", "Wounded" and "Died" (which, as Terry states, might go for those dying of illness, etc). The other entries were for "missing" and then those known to be in captivity in enemy hands... No more specifications.

Gloria

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  • 1 year later...
Thanks to you all for the prompt and helpful answers. Particularly to Terry Reeves for his most illuminating family example (which is first-hand knowledge!, as mentioned).

Wandering off-topic, and in case someone else might be interested: I find it interesting to know that the CEF had such a detailed source, as the one (the other) Terry owns... Were these CEF casualty lists published throughout the war? Can they be found -apart from those in possesion of particulars- in any Record Office, Library, etc? I'm not searching the CEF, but then someone else who did might be interested in knowing about them.

I browsed the english Weekly Casualty Lists (which evidently also included the CEF and AEF entries) and there the categories were more reduced (or at least were so by 1918, which weas the period I was looking for): namely "Killed", "Wounded" and "Died" (which, as Terry states, might go for those dying of illness, etc). The other entries were for "missing" and then those known to be in captivity in enemy hands... No more specifications.

Gloria

The CEF lists were published throughout the war but in very limited circulation due to adverse publicity as the war dragged on.

Do the British War Office weekly casualty lists specify shell shock or mental health problems specifically for casualties? Do these British lists include AIF and or CEF casualties?

Thanks,

John

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John,

the Weekly casualty list is sparse as for details of how the man was wounded. As I remember the men were listed under "wounded" without further specifications.

Re AIF and CEF I think they were listed, too.

Gloria

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Pals,

The casualty returns published in the papers, such as the Times did not make any differentiation (crumbs - haven't had to spell that since Maths A-Level!) as to cause of the wound, or how died. I have seen in many cases though, that where a soldier died as a result of gas, his MIC rather than KIA will show 'D. of P. Gas', with the P obviously standing for poisonous. The War Diary I have of the 1st Dorset quite clearly separates those gassed from KIA and wounded.

Regards

Steve

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The earlier Times lists did differentiate between gassed and wounded, but only during 1915, and I suspect that a lot of gassed casualties were described as wounded when other details were not available.

The Times includes casualties to CEF, AIF, etc.

Steve.

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Hi folks,

The Library of the Imperial War Museum , London, holds various CEF periodic Casualty lists, as well as CEF Embarkation Rolls. I can't guarantee either is a full set.

They also have the British Weekly Casualty Lists for part of 1917 and all of 1918, from my recollection.

Cheers,

LST_164

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LST_164:

The Canadian Embarkation Rolls are fairly common in Canada but the CEF casualty lists are not.

John

Toronto

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  • 1 month later...

The DGMS BEF (Director General Medical Services, British Expeditionary Forces) in 1916 issued the followed definition:

'1) A "wound" means an injury caused by or arising from the enemy and includes injuries by rifle and gunfire, by bombs, bayonet, liquid fire, etc. Shock to the nervous system caused by bursting shell, and the inhalation of poison gases, although producing no visible trauma, are to be regarded as wounds.'

Chris Henschke

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Chris, thanks for that :)

This quote from an official source is most helpful (and most appreciated).

Gloria

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I have a case history which demonstrates that catching your ***** on ENEMY barbed wire was a wound, whereas catching them on ours was dubious and could be construed as a self-inflicted wound.

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