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Remembered Today:

3rd Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment


Martyn Gibson

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Thanks for the suggestions. He was 21 on the 07/02/1915, I have found that he and  two of the others (whose documents are available) who also went to France on the 05/06/1915 were all recorded as posted to 1/3 on 15/02/1915. 

 

What would the "posted" signify? Would it be that their training was complete at this date?

 

Thanks again

 

 

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It can only be speculation, but the entry "posted to the 1/3" on 15th February makes little sense as the 1/3, as you are aware, went to France the previous day.  It appears to be in the same hand on the couple of records I looked at and is either someone in the record office interpreting it as posted from the 1/3 on that date.

 

I'd suggest they were posted to the 2/3rd on that date. Pte Foy was in the 2/3 in May when he was first appointed a Lance Corporal.

Pte Winney had signed the Imperial Obligation on enlistment so no reason why he should not have gone with the main body of the 1/3 is apparent from the surviving records other than they had another task for him.

 

The only observation is that the second line or reserve battalion was originally intended to be at 50% of the original or first line. In early 1915 subject to certain conditions they were to be brought up to full strength for deployment overseas.  They would need a leavening of more experienced men from the first line especiallu if that was up to strength. Pte Foy for example had previous service in the Special Reserve.

As the original purpose of the second line was to provide reinforcement drafts the early losses of the 1/3 meant reinforcements were needed sooner than anticipated and naturally were taken from the 2/3.  I haven't looked to see how many were in the June draft.

 

Why Pte Winney was detailed not to go with the main body will, I fear remain unsolved.

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Thanks that would make sense, " posted from the 1/3". He was posted to the 1/1 and Ive found another soldier 2433 Sidney J Surrell who also went to France on the same date 05/06/1915 who also transferred to the 1/1, and he then also went to join the Machine Gun Corps. So I'm airing on the side of caution that it would be because of his Machine Gun training.

 

I'm very glad he did go later, another family member although distant 1177 Robert Vivian Winney 1/3 went to France on the 13/02/1915 and unfortunately killed on the 6th May.

 

Thanks for all your help, fitting in a few missing pieces.

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  • 7 months later...

Just an update on my particular interest of tracing my Great Uncle Ernest. I had paid for a soldier search which the Museum at Brecon offer. They were of the opinion that he transferred from the 3rd to the 1st. 

The only engagement where he received his wound at roughly the date that would fit would have been the assault on the Hohenzollern Redoubt. So I spent quite a lot of time researching this area. Using the services of being able to download the war diaries from the record office. Having built up quite a picture of the battle< I just happened to wonder what the 3rd Monmouths would have been doing at that time so took a look at their diaries.

1495972879_diaryentry.jpg.fa287e009d254be4cf3f8ce7efd46ea1.jpg

Low and behold on the 17th October there he is 2625 Winney wounded. His name is Ernest so the A could only refer to his company (1045 Smith B the previous day is actually F.H.Smith).

That solved the puzzle and I now also new his company.

I did contact the Museum at Brecon who revealed that at the time they didn't actually have a copy of the war diaries which has now been corrected.

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15 minutes ago, Iainwinney said:

Low and behold on the 17th October there he is 2625 Winney wounded.

Well  done, a fortuitous find.

It's pretty unusual to see O/Rs named in war diaries.

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  • 1 month later...

In the course of my research I came across this document, its of interest, as 2751 Newman was recorded in the 3rd Battalion War diaries as wounded on 13th Sept 1915 (gun shot in head). He obviously survived and after recovery moved to the 3rd/3rd.

My Great Uncle also moved to the 3/3rd after recovery of a gun shot wound. However this document states that 2751 Newman then cancelled his foreign service obligation and being single could be discharged. (and who could blame him)

My question is, how would the ACI 301 of 1916 enable single Territorial Soldiers to cancel their foreign service obligation and be discharged?

 

3rd battalion.jpg

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2 hours ago, Iainwinney said:

In the course of my research I came across this document, its of interest, as 2751 Newman was recorded in the 3rd Battalion War diaries as wounded on 13th Sept 1915 (gun shot in head). He obviously survived and after recovery moved to the 3rd/3rd.

My Great Uncle also moved to the 3/3rd after recovery of a gun shot wound. However this document states that 2751 Newman then cancelled his foreign service obligation and being single could be discharged. (and who could blame him)

My question is, how would the ACI 301 of 1916 enable single Territorial Soldiers to cancel their foreign service obligation and be discharged?

 

3rd battalion.jpg

Until all men fell under the MSA 1916 then territorial men who didn't could waive their overseas service obligation. There were situations where the TF men were discharged (for various reasons) and then conscripted either immediately or shortly afterwards.

What is the full date on the stamp at the top of the page?

Craig

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1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Until all men fell under the MSA 1916 then territorial men who didn't could waive their overseas service obligation. There were situations where the TF men were discharged (for various reasons) and then conscripted either immediately or shortly afterwards.

What is the full date on the stamp at the top of the page?

Craig

15th April 1916, so even if he decided to cancel his foreign service obligation could he be conscripted and expected to serve overseas? Thanks for your response.

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1 hour ago, Iainwinney said:

15th April 1916, so even if he decided to cancel his foreign service obligation could he be conscripted and expected to serve overseas?

Yes, or more accurately as the ACI states after discharge he would be placed in the same position as any other man to whom the Military Service Act applied.  The first Act only applied to single men but was soon amended to include married men.  He could seek exemption from Military Service from the Local Tribunal on the grounds outlined in the Act, but if not granted or temporary exemption was withdrawn he became a Reservist and liable for call up if fit for military service.

The full text of ACI 301 1916 within the context of the Military service Act previously posted here

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