Scalyback Posted 13 May , 2019 Share Posted 13 May , 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jon c said: Hi, I have only just found this page but was very interested in the picture of the RE ? Posted by welshdoc on 2 Jan 2006 . My great uncle Cpl George S P Hanney is in the picture 2nd from right front row sat on bench . As far as I know he was only ever in A company 3rd Monmouthshire's not the RE . His number was 1299 and he joined the 3rd Monmouthshire's in June 1912 . Any information on him or the picture would be great . 2nd and 3rd Mons had men moved to the RE and other Welsh units. At one point 3rd Mons disbanded being the junior battalion so he could not be only 3rd Mons unless he was killed in action prior to 1916. Edit pretty much as Martin mentions above. Edited 13 May , 2019 by Scalyback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 May , 2019 Share Posted 13 May , 2019 3 hours ago, Scalyback said: 2nd and 3rd Mons had men moved to the RE and other Welsh units. At one point 3rd Mons disbanded being the junior battalion so he could not be only 3rd Mons unless he was killed in action prior to 1916. Edit pretty much as Martin mentions above. Hi and thanks for your reply , He was as far as I know killed on 8 May 1915 and I have never seen anything saying that he was in other units . Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iainwinney Posted 30 May , 2019 Share Posted 30 May , 2019 (edited) On 10/04/2019 at 15:47, Martyn Gibson said: HI Iain, Please accept my apology for the tardiness of my response to your posted question, I don't get on the site as much these days. However in response to your question I don't personally have anything on your relative but I can fill in a few blanks for you I hope. Judging by the dates given I suspect your relative was a member of one of the Machine Gun crews of the 3rd Battalion before he transferred to the MGC. The date is interesting that he moved over as the 3rd Monmouth were disbanded on in August 1916 due to a shortage of recruits from the area due in large to it being a major mining community and a miner was a reserved occupation. Please see below for the only information I have on Entrenching Battalions....... Entrenching battalions were temporary units formed in the British Army during the First World War. Allocated at Corps level, they were used as pools of men, from which drafts of replacements could be drawn by conventional infantry battalions.[1] The practice ceased on the Western Front by autumn 1917, due to manpower shortages, but saw a revival at the start of 1918. The reduction in the number of battalions in an infantry brigade (from four to three) resulted in many (under-manned) infantry battalions being disbanded. Following the disbandment of these infantry battalions in February 1918, the pool of men was used to bring the remaining battalions up to strength, and to allocate any remaining manpower surplus to twenty five entrenching battalions. These battalions were put to use in improving the existing defences in anticipation of a German offensive, and could be used as a reserve force if needed. The Entrenching Battalions were disbanded in April 1918, with their troops apportioned to infantry battalions to make good the losses suffered following the German Spring offensive of 1918. Many of their war diaries[2] from 1918 have survived and can be consulted at the National Archives at Kew though the 1918 war diaries for the 1st, 6th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 15th and 17th Entrenching Battalions have not survived. In addition to the entrenching battalions of the British Army, there were also entrenching battalions in both the Canadian Expeditionary Force and the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. Battalions 1st Entrenching Battalion The Battalion appears to have been stationed in Salonika in 1918. 2nd Entrenching Battalion The Battalion appears to have been stationed in Salonika in 1918. The unit was commanded by Hubert Carr-Gomm. 3rd Entrenching Battalion Formed from a number of battalion elements.[3] 4th Entrenching Battalion Formed primarily from the disbanded 13th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment,[4] and a small number of former members of 14th Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment (aka 2nd Barnsley Pals),[5] although many of the 2nd Barnsley Pals were to join the 1st Barnsley Pals.[6] 5th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 13th Battalion Cheshire Regiment,[7] 8th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment, 9th Battalion Suffolk Regiment and 8th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.[8] 6th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 11th Battalion Kings Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment.[9] 7th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the Nelson Battalion, Royal Naval Division [10] and 8th (Service) Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment.[11] 8th Entrenching Battalion Refer to article on 1914-1918.net for further details; see "External Links" below. 9th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 3rd Battalion, Monmouthshire Regiment.[12] 10th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the disbanded 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and 12th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment. Disbanded on 5 April 1918.[13] These men subsequently joined the 7th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and 10th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment. 11th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the Household Battalion, a battalion raised from the Household Cavalry.[14] 12th Entrenching Battalion Formed from elements of the 23rd Battalion Manchester Regiment.[15] The Officer Commanding was Lieutenant Colonel L M Stevens DSO.[16] 13th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 10th (Service) Battalion, The Gloucestershire Battalion.[17] 14th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 7th Battalion, Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.[18] 15th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 8th Battalion, East Lancaster Regiment.[19] 16th Entrenching Battalion Formed from half of the disbanded 6th Battalion King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.[20] 17th Entrenching Battalion Formed from elements of the 18th Battalion Manchester Regiment [21] The battalion was with the 49th Infantry Division during the Spring Offensive.[22] 18th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 12th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment.[23] 19th Entrenching Battalion 20th Entrenching Battalion 21st Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 10th Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles.[24] 22nd Entrenching Battalion 23rd Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 14th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles and 11th Battalion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.[25] 24th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 2/5th (TF) Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment [26] and the 2/4th & 2/6th (TF) Battalions Gloucestershire Regiment.[27] 25th Entrenching Battalion Formed from the 2/1st Buckinghamshire Battalion [28] and the 2/8th (TF) Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.[29] These men subsequently joined the 2/4th Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry when the battalion was disbanded in April 1918. I hope this is of some use to you and should you require any further information then please do not hesitate to contact me again. Kind regards Martyn Thanks for this Martyn Have managed to find this document, as he joined in Abergavenny would he have been in A Company so I can try to track his movements? Sorry for late response have now activated response notifications (which I thought I had done) The Western Daily Press November 10th 1915 also had him reported as injured (medical record states gunshot wound to the shoulder slight) Not sure how this fits the time line or how long it would be reported after the event. Edited 30 May , 2019 by Iainwinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 30 May , 2019 Share Posted 30 May , 2019 (edited) Abergavenny was A company under Captain RL Baker. There was a reorganization in 1915 when the eight companies moved to four. A company merged with F company to be the new A company. It is not guaranteed that he would stay with A company. Edit I'm reading the paperwork as 1/3 Monmouth(Newport based) and ending in service with the Machine Gun Corps in 1916. Either wrong paperwork or wrong man you are chasing. You say he died in 1915. Edited 30 May , 2019 by Scalyback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iainwinney Posted 30 May , 2019 Share Posted 30 May , 2019 Thanks Scalyback, I have got a great book "On The Western Front" 1/3rd Monmouthshire Regiment which has a lot of detail but without knowing which company my Great Uncle was in makes it difficult to follow where he would have been involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iainwinney Posted 1 June , 2019 Share Posted 1 June , 2019 On 30/05/2019 at 18:53, Scalyback said: Abergavenny was A company under Captain RL Baker. There was a reorganization in 1915 when the eight companies moved to four. A company merged with F company to be the new A company. It is not guaranteed that he would stay with A company. Edit I'm reading the paperwork as 1/3 Monmouth(Newport based) and ending in service with the Machine Gun Corps in 1916. Either wrong paperwork or wrong man you are chasing. You say he died in 1915. He signed up in Abergavenny, injured in 1915 not killed, did indeed join the Machine Gun Corps and went to fight in Salonika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 2 June , 2019 Share Posted 2 June , 2019 (edited) On 30/05/2019 at 19:06, Iainwinney said: Thanks Scalyback, I have got a great book "On The Western Front" 1/3rd Monmouthshire Regiment which has a lot of detail but without knowing which company my Great Uncle was in makes it difficult to follow where he would have been involved. Sorry just seen there is another poster jumping in and confusing me confirming a death in 1915! Yes he did enlist at Abergavenny and ends up in the 3rd battalion. However on the 27th of May all the front line units merged. On the 4th of June he is down just as "1" so I guess the paperwork catches up and does become impossible to say he even served in the 3rd Battalion(at the time as it did not exist) let alone the original A company. In August the 3rd gets it's identity back and the 3rd go to 49th Division. I can't see what action might cause the GSW on the 10th apart from routine work in the front line? But by the 12th he is posted as being with the 3rd line of the Battalion. So looks like he went back to the 3rd but not noted in the paperwork, but the 3rd line claiming him shows he carried on with the 3rd. Then I looks like an move to RE that was cancelled before getting into the MGC. Edited 2 June , 2019 by Scalyback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iainwinney Posted 2 June , 2019 Share Posted 2 June , 2019 1 hour ago, Scalyback said: Sorry just seen there is another poster jumping in and confusing me confirming a death in 1915! Yes he did enlist at Abergavenny and ends up in the 3rd battalion. However on the 27th of May all the front line units merged. On the 4th of June he is down just as "1" so I guess the paperwork catches up and does become impossible to say he even served in the 3rd Battalion(at the time as it did not exist) let alone the original A company. In August the 3rd gets it's identity back and the 3rd go to 49th Division. I can't see what action might cause the GSW on the 10th apart from routine work in the front line? But by the 12th he is posted as being with the 3rd line of the Battalion. So looks like he went back to the 3rd but not noted in the paperwork, but the 3rd line claiming him shows he carried on with the 3rd. Then I looks like an move to RE that was cancelled before getting into the MGC. Yes I'm finding it quite a struggle to make sense of it all , this has him back home on the 21.10.15, but I assume there would be some delay between the event and the actual reporting in the press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 2 June , 2019 Share Posted 2 June , 2019 Shot on the 10th, moved to the 3rd line of 3rd Battalion on the 12th. That would be an administrative move. Home by the 21st to rest be away from the fighting. Yes can be delaying in reporting also. Time for the information to get to press and also remove the intelligence gathering aspect. Fresh information on even private soldiers can add to the picture the enemy has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit Posted 11 August , 2019 Share Posted 11 August , 2019 Any info on frederick william davies 3rd mons mineing section made up to corp in 1917 he was in the royal engineers i would love to know of any awards etc i know he was in norfolk in 1917 as he married my gran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 11 August , 2019 Share Posted 11 August , 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Biscuit said: Any info on frederick william davies 3rd mons mineing section made up to corp in 1917 he was in the royal engineers i would love to know of any awards etc i know he was in norfolk in 1917 as he married my gran Welcome to the Forum, Biscuit. Do you know when your GF was born and where ? I have a possibility. There is no surviving Service Record that I can find but there is a man with the following details: Frederick William Davies born c 1893 L Cpl, then Cpl 2022 Monmouthshire Regiment (TF) Enlisted 4/8/14 First went overseas to France 14/1/15 Wounded 1915 1st Bn TF (reported in Casualty List 27/8/15 which I believe covers April/May 1915 actions- see below) Admitted No3 Casualty Clearing Station 10/5/15 GS Wound Left Thigh. To No 3 Ambulance Train 11/5/15 Transferred to Royal Engineers about June 1916 (perhaps due to his wounds) Sergeant Royal Engineers 188940. Railway Trps Dep (Railway Troops Depot ?) Discharged due to Wounds 4/1/18 Could that be him ? Do you have his medals or anything with his Army Number ? What does his marriage certificate say ? Charlie Update: (I hope Biscuit returns ?) The man I've noted has a Pension Record which tells us in addition that: He comes from Newport, Monmouthshire His Pension (and early discharge) were as a result of his 'old' (ie 1915) injury which was the GS (GunShot = shell splinter) Wound to his left knee. PS: There is a 1917 Marriage registered Q1 of a Frederick W Davies to a Harriet L Woodhouse in parish of Smallburgh, Norfolk. Smallburgh is 14 miles NE of Norwich. Could this also be him ? Edited 12 August , 2019 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit Posted 12 August , 2019 Share Posted 12 August , 2019 Hi.yes this is him harriet was my great gran.many thanks for the info.sadly no medals to hand no photos of him or harriet when the married they both gave their birth date as 1885 she was born 1877 any more info on frederick would be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 August , 2019 Share Posted 12 August , 2019 Just now, Biscuit said: Hi.yes this is him Great. What a stroke of luck. Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate? It should confirm his unit and perhaps his service number ? Can you post a copy ? Given the fact that his Service File has not survived I'm afraid that you must consider we are fortunate to have found a number of alternative records that have enabled us to rebuild a timeline. So many soldiers are just untraceable. Any idea what he might have done on the Railways ? What did he do postwar ? I'll look at the 1939 Register for Newport. Was he still living there in 1939 ? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 August , 2019 Share Posted 12 August , 2019 29 minutes ago, Biscuit said: birth date as 1885 she was born 1877 a But the soldier I listed above was born 1892 (confirmed on his Pension Record) and his address was Newport. Have I got the right soldier ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit Posted 12 August , 2019 Share Posted 12 August , 2019 (edited) On 11/08/2019 at 21:43, charlie962 said: Welcome to the Forum, Biscuit. Do you know when your GF was born and where ? I have a possibility. There is no surviving Service Record that I can find but there is a man with the following details: Frederick William Davies born c 1893 L Cpl, then Cpl 2022 Monmouthshire Regiment (TF) Enlisted 4/8/14 First went overseas to France 14/1/15 Wounded 1915 1st Bn TF (reported in Casualty List 27/8/15 which I believe covers April/May 1915 actions- see below) Admitted No3 Casualty Clearing Station 10/5/15 GS Wound Left Thigh. To No 3 Ambulance Train 11/5/15 Transferred to Royal Engineers about June 1916 (perhaps due to his wounds) Sergeant Royal Engineers 188940. Railway Trps Dep (Railway Troops Depot ?) Discharged due to Wounds 4/1/18 Could that be him ? Do you have his medals or anything with his Army Number ? What does his marriage certificate say ? Charlie Update: (I hope Biscuit returns ?) The man I've noted has a Pension Record which tells us in addition that: He comes from Newport, Monmouthshire His Pension (and early discharge) were as a result of his 'old' (ie 1915) injury which was the GS (GunShot = shell splinter) Wound to his left knee. PS: There is a 1917 Marriage registered Q1 of a Frederick W Davies to a Harriet L Woodhouse in parish of Smallburgh, Norfolk. Smallburgh is 14 miles NE of Norwich. Could this also be him ? 1 hour ago, charlie962 said: But the soldier I listed above was born 1892 (confirmed on his Pension Record) and his address was Newport. Have I got the right soldier ? Update in 1917 he was a lance corporal mineing section royal engineers this is stated on his dughters birth cert dated june 1917 on his marraige cert dated feb 1917 it states he is with the 3rd mons regiment lance corp so i think you may have the wrong frederick davies i think he cam from cwm as they moved to cwm 1919 and lived with his parents i think he may have been born 1883 Edited 12 August , 2019 by Biscuit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 August , 2019 Share Posted 12 August , 2019 Do you know when Frederick William Davies died ? What else does the Marriage certificate show ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 August , 2019 Share Posted 12 August , 2019 1 hour ago, Biscuit said: with his parents. Do you have their names please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 I am trying to find out information re the 2nd WW. My father was in the 3rd Mons regiment (and he vaguely mentioned Northern Ireland and the Battle for Normandy but otherwise I have very little to go on. Perhaps there are resources available related to that period? Many thanks, Gareth Griffiths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cole Posted 27 August , 2020 Share Posted 27 August , 2020 Hi Martyn I have two relatives who served in the Mons. I have posted about Daniel Williams who was 3rd Battalion and who was killed on the 2nd May 1915 - any information about him would be gratefully received. There is a family story that he was killed at Polygon Wood but we have no evidence and we would love to know more (Regeiment No 2338, 290458) Also my great grandfather Sidney Price who was a sergeant and who was involved in training the troops for war. I have an image which may be of interest here - Sergeant Sidney Price is in the back row on the extreme left (Regiment No 200169). Daniel was Sidney's brother in law. There was astory about Sidney being implicated in the death of a recruit but again this may be a family legend - any information about either of these chaps would be wonderful. Planning a visit to the Regimental Museum at Monmouth very soon. Many thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Gibson Posted 14 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 September , 2020 Hi Mike thanks for getting in touch. I will have a look through my records for you to see if I can find further information for you. If you are wanting to visit the museum for the 3rd Mons you will need to go to Brecon to the museum of the Royal Welsh and not Monmouth. Monmouth is the home of the Royal Monmouthshire Royal Engineers Museum. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Gibson Posted 17 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2020 Hi Mike, I can confirm that Daniel did die on May 2nd 1915 and this was while the 3rd Mons were in Polygon Wood. It would appear from what I have read on the 2nd May 1915 the Monmouth's were shelled systematically by the Germans. Their fire trenches were particularly hard hit. The 3rd Monmouth's were ordered to withdraw from the Polygon Wood area. Luckily for the 3rd Mons on the 2nd the heavy shelling ceased at around about 20.00 and evacuation instructions were issued at around 21.45 for men and equipment to move. Below is a picture of the panel at the Menin Gate which lists Daniel's Name. Sidney service number suggests that he was in the 1st Mons so I will have to check my other records to see if I hold any information on him for you. Regards Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 9 November , 2020 Share Posted 9 November , 2020 Private J Gill Special Reserve Monmouthshire Regiment No 69 Troedrhiwfuwch War Memorial [6800] MiD 1-Jun-15 This is all the info I have. There are 16 names on the Cenotaph from a tiny village called Troedrhiwfuwch in South Wales with less than 100 houses. I am researching the men on the cenotaph. It says Private J Gill on the Cenotaph but records in Ypres show different. I'm at a stand still. I have access to Ancestry and Fold 3 but i can't find him. If anyone has any info it would be gratefully received COMPANY SERJEANT MAJOR JOHN THOMAS GILL Service Number: 69 Regiment & Unit/Ship Monmouthshire Regiment 3rd Bn. Date of Death Died 08 May 1915 Age 40 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iainwinney Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 I have been researching my Great Uncle Ernest Winney 2625. I have quite a few of his documents but missing the details of his part in France. (Transferred to 84 MGC Salonika). Searching other recruits who joined the 3rd near his time I have gained some further knowledge. I assumed he joined too late to have been sent with the rest of the Battalion in February 1915. Which was fortunate as he missed the devastation to the 3rd in the second battle of Ypres,having been sent to France in June 1915. What puzzles me is to what would the likely circumstances have been for him not to have been sent in February? From what I can gather, recruits who joined up after him were actually sent in February. Joined 13/10/14 2614 Archie Sharp sent to France 13/02/15 Joined 14/10/14 2623 Edwin Arthur Baker France 05/06/15 Joined 14/10/14 2625 Ernest Winney France 05/06/1915 2632 Jack Jenkins France 13/02/1915 KIA 08/05/1915 2636 Godfrey Morgan France 13/02/1915 KIA 02/05/1915 2637 Ernest Miles France 13/02/1915 KIA 02/05/1915 2646 George Henry Williams France 13/02/1915 KIA 02/05/1915 Joined 20/10/14 2672 Henry Compton France 05/06/1915 Joined 22/10/14 2690 Thomas Foy France 05/06/1915 Any suggestions would be helpful for me to record this part of his story. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 Illness at the time a draft was being assembled? His specialism seems to have been MG section so maybe MG teams weren't needed? Maybe he was on leave. Maybe his standard of training was insufficiently advanced. I suspect there may have been a myriad of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 26 February , 2021 Admin Share Posted 26 February , 2021 As noted, a myriad of reasons, when was he nineteen? He could not go on active service overseas until after his nineteenth birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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