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Remembered Today:

Martyn Gibson

3rd Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment

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Scalyback
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jon c said:

Hi, I have only just found this page but was very interested in the picture of the RE ? Posted by welshdoc on 2 Jan 2006 . My great uncle Cpl George S P Hanney is in the picture 2nd from right front row sat on bench . As far as I know he was only ever in A company 3rd Monmouthshire's not the RE . His number was 1299 and he joined the 3rd Monmouthshire's in June 1912 . Any information on him or the picture would be great .

 

2nd and 3rd Mons had men moved to the RE and other Welsh units. At one point 3rd Mons disbanded being the junior battalion so he could not be only 3rd Mons unless he was killed in action prior to 1916. 

 

Edit pretty much as Martin mentions above. 

Edited by Scalyback

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Jon c
3 hours ago, Scalyback said:

 

2nd and 3rd Mons had men moved to the RE and other Welsh units. At one point 3rd Mons disbanded being the junior battalion so he could not be only 3rd Mons unless he was killed in action prior to 1916. 

 

Edit pretty much as Martin mentions above. 

Hi and thanks for your reply , He was as far as I know killed on 8 May 1915 and I have never seen anything saying that he was in other units .

Jon 

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Iainwinney
Posted (edited)
On 10/04/2019 at 15:47, Martyn Gibson said:

HI Iain,

 

Please accept my apology for the tardiness of my response to your posted question, I don't get on the site as much these days.

 

However in response to your question I don't personally have anything on your relative but I can fill in a few blanks for you I hope.

 

Judging by the dates given I suspect your relative was a member of one of the Machine Gun crews of the 3rd Battalion before he transferred to the MGC. The date is interesting that he moved over as the 3rd Monmouth were disbanded on in August 1916 due to a shortage of recruits from the area due in large to it being a major mining community and a miner was a reserved occupation.

 

Please see below for the only information I have on Entrenching Battalions.......

Entrenching battalions were temporary units formed in the British Army during the First World War. Allocated at Corps level, they were used as pools of men, from which drafts of replacements could be drawn by conventional infantry battalions.[1]

 

The practice ceased on the Western Front by autumn 1917, due to manpower shortages, but saw a revival at the start of 1918. The reduction in the number of battalions in an infantry brigade (from four to three) resulted in many (under-manned) infantry battalions being disbanded. Following the disbandment of these infantry battalions in February 1918, the pool of men was used to bring the remaining battalions up to strength, and to allocate any remaining manpower surplus to twenty five entrenching battalions. These battalions were put to use in improving the existing defences in anticipation of a German offensive, and could be used as a reserve force if needed.

 

The Entrenching Battalions were disbanded in April 1918, with their troops apportioned to infantry battalions to make good the losses suffered following the German Spring offensive of 1918. Many of their war diaries[2] from 1918 have survived and can be consulted at the National Archives at Kew though the 1918 war diaries for the 1st, 6th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 15th and 17th Entrenching Battalions have not survived.

 

In addition to the entrenching battalions of the British Army, there were also entrenching battalions in both the Canadian Expeditionary Force and the New Zealand Expeditionary Force.

 

Battalions

 

1st Entrenching Battalion

 

The Battalion appears to have been stationed in Salonika in 1918.

 

2nd Entrenching Battalion

 

The Battalion appears to have been stationed in Salonika in 1918. The unit was commanded by Hubert Carr-Gomm.

 

3rd Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from a number of battalion elements.[3]

 

4th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed primarily from the disbanded 13th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment,[4] and a small number of former members of 14th Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment (aka 2nd Barnsley Pals),[5] although many of the 2nd Barnsley Pals were to join the 1st Barnsley Pals.[6]

 

5th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 13th Battalion Cheshire Regiment,[7] 8th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment, 9th Battalion Suffolk Regiment and 8th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.[8]

 

6th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 11th Battalion Kings Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment.[9]

 

7th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the Nelson Battalion, Royal Naval Division [10] and 8th (Service) Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment.[11]

 

8th Entrenching Battalion

 

Refer to article on 1914-1918.net for further details; see "External Links" below.

 

9th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 3rd Battalion, Monmouthshire Regiment.[12]

 

10th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the disbanded 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and 12th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment. Disbanded on 5 April 1918.[13] These men subsequently joined the 7th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and 10th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment.

 

11th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the Household Battalion, a battalion raised from the Household Cavalry.[14]

 

12th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from elements of the 23rd Battalion Manchester Regiment.[15] The Officer Commanding was Lieutenant Colonel L M Stevens DSO.[16]

 

13th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 10th (Service) Battalion, The Gloucestershire Battalion.[17]

 

14th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 7th Battalion, Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.[18]

 

15th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 8th Battalion, East Lancaster Regiment.[19]

 

16th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from half of the disbanded 6th Battalion King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.[20]

 

17th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from elements of the 18th Battalion Manchester Regiment [21] The battalion was with the 49th Infantry Division during the Spring Offensive.[22]

 

18th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 12th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment.[23]

 

19th Entrenching Battalion

 

20th Entrenching Battalion

 

21st Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 10th Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles.[24]

 

22nd Entrenching Battalion

 

23rd Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 14th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles and 11th Battalion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.[25]

 

24th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 2/5th (TF) Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment [26] and the 2/4th & 2/6th (TF) Battalions Gloucestershire Regiment.[27]

 

25th Entrenching Battalion

 

Formed from the 2/1st Buckinghamshire Battalion [28] and the 2/8th (TF) Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.[29] These men subsequently joined the 2/4th Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry when the battalion was disbanded in April 1918.

 

 

I hope this is of some use to you and should you require any further information then please do not hesitate to contact me again.

 

Kind regards

 

Martyn

 

 

 

Thanks for this Martyn

Have managed to find this document, as he joined in Abergavenny would he have been in A Company so I can try to track his movements?

Sorry for late response have now activated response notifications (which I thought I had done)

 

The Western Daily Press November 10th 1915 also had him reported as injured (medical record states gunshot wound to the shoulder slight)

Not sure how this fits the time line or how long it would be reported after the event.

 

 

ww1 Ernest Winney.jpg

winney e.jpg

Edited by Iainwinney

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Scalyback
Posted (edited)

Abergavenny was A company under Captain RL Baker. There was a reorganization in 1915 when the eight companies moved to four. 

A company merged with F company to be the new A company. 

It is not guaranteed that he would stay with A company.

 

Edit I'm reading the paperwork as 1/3 Monmouth(Newport based)  and ending in service with the Machine Gun Corps in 1916. 

Either wrong paperwork or wrong man you are chasing. You say he died in 1915.

Edited by Scalyback

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Iainwinney

Thanks Scalyback, I have got a great book "On The Western Front" 1/3rd Monmouthshire Regiment which has a lot of detail but without knowing which company my Great Uncle was in makes it difficult to follow where he would have been involved.

 

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Iainwinney
On 30/05/2019 at 18:53, Scalyback said:

Abergavenny was A company under Captain RL Baker. There was a reorganization in 1915 when the eight companies moved to four. 

A company merged with F company to be the new A company. 

It is not guaranteed that he would stay with A company.

 

Edit I'm reading the paperwork as 1/3 Monmouth(Newport based)  and ending in service with the Machine Gun Corps in 1916. 

Either wrong paperwork or wrong man you are chasing. You say he died in 1915.

31240_210197-00204.jpg.4a4621157693b3db5d657650a06ddc06.jpg

 

He signed up in Abergavenny, injured in 1915 not killed, did indeed join the Machine Gun Corps and went to fight in Salonika.

 

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Scalyback
Posted (edited)
On 30/05/2019 at 19:06, Iainwinney said:

Thanks Scalyback, I have got a great book "On The Western Front" 1/3rd Monmouthshire Regiment which has a lot of detail but without knowing which company my Great Uncle was in makes it difficult to follow where he would have been involved.

 

 

Sorry just seen there is another poster jumping in and confusing me confirming a death in 1915! 

 

Yes he did enlist at Abergavenny and ends up in the 3rd battalion. However on the 27th of May all the front line units merged. On the 4th of June he is down just as "1" so I guess the paperwork catches up and does become impossible to say he even served in the 3rd Battalion(at the time as it did not exist) let alone the original A company. In August the 3rd gets it's identity back and the 3rd go to 49th Division. I can't see what action might cause the GSW on the 10th apart from routine work in the front line? But by the 12th he is posted as being with the 3rd line of the Battalion. So looks like he went back to the 3rd but not noted in the paperwork, but the 3rd line claiming him shows he carried on with the 3rd. 

Then I looks like an move to RE that was cancelled before getting into the MGC. 

 

 

Edited by Scalyback

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Iainwinney
1 hour ago, Scalyback said:

 

Sorry just seen there is another poster jumping in and confusing me confirming a death in 1915! 

 

Yes he did enlist at Abergavenny and ends up in the 3rd battalion. However on the 27th of May all the front line units merged. On the 4th of June he is down just as "1" so I guess the paperwork catches up and does become impossible to say he even served in the 3rd Battalion(at the time as it did not exist) let alone the original A company. In August the 3rd gets it's identity back and the 3rd go to 49th Division. I can't see what action might cause the GSW on the 10th apart from routine work in the front line? But by the 12th he is posted as being with the 3rd line of the Battalion. So looks like he went back to the 3rd but not noted in the paperwork, but the 3rd line claiming him shows he carried on with the 3rd. 

Then I looks like an move to RE that was cancelled before getting into the MGC. 

 

 

 

Yes I'm finding it quite a struggle to make sense of it all , this has him back home on the 21.10.15, but I assume there would be some delay between the event and the actual reporting in the press?

31240_210197-00229.jpg

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Scalyback

Shot on the 10th, moved to the 3rd line of 3rd Battalion on the 12th. That would be an administrative move. Home by the 21st to rest be away from the fighting. Yes can be delaying in reporting also.

Time for the information to get to press and also remove the intelligence gathering aspect. 

Fresh information on even private soldiers can add to the picture the enemy has. 

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Biscuit

Any info on frederick william davies 3rd mons mineing section made up to corp in 1917 he was in the royal engineers i would love to know of any awards etc i know he was in norfolk in 1917 as he married my gran 

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charlie962
16 hours ago, Biscuit said:

Any info on frederick william davies 3rd mons mineing section made up to corp in 1917 he was in the royal engineers i would love to know of any awards etc i know he was in norfolk in 1917 as he married my gran 

Welcome to the Forum, Biscuit.  Do you know when your GF was born and where ?

 

I have a possibility. There is no surviving Service Record that I can find but there is a man with the following details:

Frederick William Davies

born c 1893

L Cpl, then Cpl  2022 Monmouthshire Regiment (TF)

Enlisted 4/8/14

First went overseas to France 14/1/15

Wounded 1915  1st Bn TF (reported in Casualty List 27/8/15 which I believe covers April/May 1915 actions- see below)

Admitted No3 Casualty Clearing Station 10/5/15 GS Wound Left Thigh. To No 3 Ambulance Train 11/5/15

Transferred to Royal Engineers about June 1916 (perhaps due to his wounds)

Sergeant Royal Engineers 188940.  Railway Trps Dep (Railway Troops Depot ?)

Discharged due to Wounds  4/1/18

 

Could that be him ? Do you have his medals or anything with his Army Number ? What does his marriage certificate say ?

 

Charlie

 

Update: (I hope Biscuit returns ?)

 

The man I've noted has a Pension Record which tells us in addition that:

He comes from Newport, Monmouthshire

His Pension (and early discharge) were as a result of his 'old' (ie 1915) injury which was the GS (GunShot = shell splinter) Wound to his left knee.

 

PS:  There is a 1917 Marriage registered Q1 of a Frederick W Davies to a Harriet L Woodhouse in parish of Smallburgh, Norfolk. Smallburgh is 14 miles NE of Norwich. Could this also be him ?

Edited by charlie962

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Biscuit

Hi.yes this is him harriet was my great gran.many thanks for the info.sadly no medals to hand no photos of him or harriet when the married they both gave their birth date as 1885 she was born 1877 any more info on frederick would be great

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charlie962
Just now, Biscuit said:

Hi.yes this is him

Great. What a stroke of luck.

Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate? It should confirm his unit and perhaps his service number ? Can you post a copy ?

 

Given the fact that his Service File has not survived I'm afraid that you must consider we are fortunate to have found a number of alternative records that have enabled us to rebuild a timeline. So many soldiers are just untraceable.

 

Any idea what he might have done on the Railways ? What did he do postwar ? I'll look at the 1939 Register for Newport. Was he still living there in 1939 ?

 

Charlie

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charlie962
29 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

birth date as 1885 she was born 1877 a

But the soldier I listed above was born 1892 (confirmed on his Pension Record)  and his address was Newport. Have I got the right soldier ?

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Biscuit
On 11/08/2019 at 21:43, charlie962 said:

Welcome to the Forum, Biscuit.  Do you know when your GF was born and where ?

 

I have a possibility. There is no surviving Service Record that I can find but there is a man with the following details:

Frederick William Davies

born c 1893

L Cpl, then Cpl  2022 Monmouthshire Regiment (TF)

Enlisted 4/8/14

First went overseas to France 14/1/15

Wounded 1915  1st Bn TF (reported in Casualty List 27/8/15 which I believe covers April/May 1915 actions- see below)

Admitted No3 Casualty Clearing Station 10/5/15 GS Wound Left Thigh. To No 3 Ambulance Train 11/5/15

Transferred to Royal Engineers about June 1916 (perhaps due to his wounds)

Sergeant Royal Engineers 188940.  Railway Trps Dep (Railway Troops Depot ?)

Discharged due to Wounds  4/1/18

 

Could that be him ? Do you have his medals or anything with his Army Number ? What does his marriage certificate say ?

 

Charlie

 

Update: (I hope Biscuit returns ?)

 

The man I've noted has a Pension Record which tells us in addition that:

He comes from Newport, Monmouthshire

His Pension (and early discharge) were as a result of his 'old' (ie 1915) injury which was the GS (GunShot = shell splinter) Wound to his left knee.

 

PS:  There is a 1917 Marriage registered Q1 of a Frederick W Davies to a Harriet L Woodhouse in parish of Smallburgh, Norfolk. Smallburgh is 14 miles NE of Norwich. Could this also be him ?

 

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

But the soldier I listed above was born 1892 (confirmed on his Pension Record)  and his address was Newport. Have I got the right soldier ?

Update in 1917 he was a lance corporal mineing section royal engineers this is stated on his  dughters birth cert dated june 1917 on his marraige cert  dated feb 1917  it states he is with the 3rd mons regiment lance corp so i think you may have the wrong frederick davies i think he cam from cwm as they moved to cwm 1919 and lived with his parents i think he may have been born 1883

Edited by Biscuit

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charlie962

Do you know when Frederick William Davies died ?

 

What else does the Marriage certificate show ?

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charlie962
1 hour ago, Biscuit said:

with his parents.

Do you have their names please ?

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