SMLE mags

[CROONAERT]

    If you handled a gew98 with a turned down bolt and it was not a sniper , colonial issue nor bicycle troop version you did not handle an original WW1 period bolt turned down rifle.

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Didn't just handle it - I owned it!

Now you come to mention it, there were a couple of strange (quite fine) drill holes on top of the chamber that I've never encountered before. Any ideas? Some kind of sight perhaps?

dave.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I know that soldiers were issued 120 rounds IIRC and had assusmed that these were all in 5 round clips (chargers?).

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In the operational orders for the First Day of the Somme: each man of 56th London Division had to carry 200 rounds SAA, plus other equipment. That’s 40 clips and less that 15 minutes firing if they shot at 15 rounds a minute. No wonder attacks ran short of ammo!

What isn’t listed is how they were to be re supplied, was it to be carried up in ammo crates? Who handled the re supply when the attack pushed forward?

[Petegoldy]

Irregardless of how many nations used the straight pull rifle designs - they were inferior.

The SMLE action was shorter in lock time and much handier to operate -hence a higher rate of rounds downrange was achievable.

There were four mauser action rifles the germans used with "turned down bolt handles".

1) The colonial service gewehr98. Bolt was basically bent in an arc like the later kar98a.

2) Kar98a made from 1907 through 1918. Like the colonial service gew98 the angle of the bolt handle bend was not terribly conducive to rapid manipulation.

3) Scharfschutzengewehr 98's -their sniping rifles had bolts turned down , the 98k of later years copied this bend exactly.

4) Radfahrergewehr98 , this is a gew98 with side sling attachment setup and a turned down bolt identical to the scharfschutzengewehr98's.

Technically you could count the first pattern of kar98a , but these were made in very small numbers and withdrawn from service as replaced by the kar98a.

If you handled a gew98 with a turned down bolt and it was not a sniper , colonial issue nor bicycle troop version you did not handle an original WW1 period bolt turned down rifle.

After WW1 some gew98's were converted to and some new made as karab 98b's with turned down bolts.But right off that is post WW1 issue.

Hi

Did not the Lee Enfield P13/P14 have the mauser bolt action. although they were designed to be issued to the Infantry in 1914 design/ammunition faults delayed its issue and the war intervened. However the US army had the majority of its infantry issued with the rechambered model with much success in fact the famous Sgt York was armed with this type of rifle.

I think the problem with the mauser action was the line of sight was broken when cocking the rifle this did not make the rifle inaccurate but it did slow the rate of fire. The British used to charge magazines before going into action, ie. the magazine was loaded with 10 rounds then the bolt closed taking a round into the breach with safety applied. The magazine was removed from the rifle and the round in the breack replaced, giving the soldier effectivly 11 rounds

Pete

[Pete1052]

Rifles with cock on opening bolts do not have to be removed from the shoulder when the bolt is manipulated. In the U.S. soldiers were taught not to do that during their training on the Model 1903 rifle. They were also taught to maintain a sight picture (and not to look at the case being ejected and the new round being chambered) while operating the bolt. See the thread on Rapid Fire for more information.

[Petegoldy]

Irregardless of how many nations used the straight pull rifle designs - they were inferior.

With the originall Mauser right angled bolt the action of ejecting a cartridge would affect the point of aim. Regarding the Mauser action being inferior that is arguable considering that the SMLE 1 was not very good as a sniper rifle and the british throughout the war used the P14 as its sniper rifle, which of coarse had the mauser action. If it were not for ammunition problems it would have been the British Service rifle in WW1

Regarding resupply the first resupply point were the dead and wounded any resupply required ther after would be done by the reserve units

Pete

[TonyE]

This has been discussed recently, so you may find some more info here.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=99745

Goldy

The Pattern 1914 rifle was not used as a sniper rifle at all during the war, the SMLE being the only type issued, all be it with a number of different scopes and mounts. The P.14 with the P.1918 scope and mount would have become the standard weapon had the war continued into 1919, but only a few trial weapons had reached France by the end of the war.

The .276" Pattern 1913 would have become the new British rifle had the war not intervened with development of the ammunition.

Regards

TonyE

[Pete1052]

British sniper rifles were recently discussed on this forum, albeit in a different thread, this one.

[Steven B]

Its an old thread but at the risk of thread mining I would like to point out a few points in relation to the rate of fire with the SMLE compared to accuracy of Mauser action rifles.

Obviously the SMLE has a magazine capicity advantage but even if you loaded the SMLE with 5 rounds it would still be significantly quicker than the Mauser. The SMLE & Mauser actions compare as follows.

1. The SMLE has locking lugs at the rear unlike the Mauser where the lugs are at the front of the bolt. This makes the Mauser action stronger but slows down opening the bolt. SMLE is weaker and can be prone to stretching the reciever if cartriges are over loaded.
2. The Mauser part cocks on opening the bolt. This makes the bolt stiff to open and further slows the action. The SMLE bolt is very easy to open.
3. The SMLE cocks at the end of the forward stroke of the bolt. The quicker you work the action, the easier it is to cock as you rely some what on forward momentum of your hand. The cocking action (closing the bolt) is quite difficult and stiff if you move the bolt forward slowly. The Mauser action cocking is completed on the dowwards movment of the handle. No momentum and again stiff.

In summary the advantages of the Mauser action is its strenth. This make it more acurate as you dont get flex in the reciever and it can handle more powerfull rounds.

The advantages in the SMLE are the smothness of its action and sheer speed. Its acuracy is more than adequate for a battle rifle and you can cock the weapon whilst at the shoulder. One other weakness it does have is the safety catch. The safety on the SMLE pulls the firing pin back off the sear. If you knock the back of the bolt hard enough (try tapping one with say a bayonet to prove it) the safety catch is knocked from safe to fire.

I have fired 1000s of rounds from both. I had a BRNO ZKK600 (Mauser Aaction) in 30.06 and it was a very accurate rifle. My brother had a FN Mauser in 30.06 and he always preferd to hunt with his Lithgow made Australian SMLE. In my view the SMLE is the bolt action weapon of choice in a battle. During the first war I would take a US Springfield in 30.06 for sniping. The 30.06 is a far better cartridge than the rimmed .303. Both do the same amount of damage to the human though so its a bit of a moot point if you were on the reciving end.

Just my views.

Steve