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Silver War Badges


liverpool annie
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Annie,

If you look at his MIC you will find List M/1010 which means he was entitled to a Silver War Badge. Pulled this list also for you which gave me the following information: He enlisted on the 8/9/14 and was discharged on 12/4/18. His age on discharge was 47 years and 364 days old. He was issued Badge number 414,917 and was discharged under A.O.II. Paragraph II BI of 10/8/17.

Not entirely positive what this Army Order entails but I am sure that someone on the forum will know.

If you would care to e mail or pm me your adress I will post these rolls of to you this weekend.

Hope this all helps.

Stiletto got this information for me from Kew ( what a guy!!!)

but he suggested I ask about the reason why he was discharged - can anybody decipher

the letters please?

"He was issued Badge number 414,917 and was discharged under A.O.II. Paragraph II BI of 10/8/17."

Thanking you in advance

Annie

PS My other Granddad had a War Badge too! could you please do him at the same time!!

private.james.william howarth

kings liverpool regt

49428

James William Howarth enlisted in 4 KLR as No 49428 on 4/1/15 and subsequently also served with 17 KLR and 2/7 KLR before being discharged from the Army on 4/4/19 aged 36. He would have received the BW and Victory medals together with Silver War Badge No 495734.

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Army Order reference, anyone help Annie here.

Andy

post-1871-1125835682.jpg

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At the moment, I can only find reference to AO's 50 (February) and 265 (September) for 1917 pertaining to the issue of the SWB but I have seen this reference before. However, I am in no doubt that Paragraph 2 b(i) is identical to that laid out in AO 265 thus:

"2. Under the amended conditions the badge will.......be issued only to the individuals specified below, who have served with the military forces subsequent to the 4th August, 1914:

b. Those who, having served as soldiers and being still of military age, have been discharged:

(i) After service overseas in the armed Forces of the Crown, on account of disablement or ill-health caused otherwise than by misconduct."

AO 265 of September 1917 has its origins in the Military Service Act (No.3) passed earlier that year in April which, amongst other things, sought to (medically) re-examine discharged soldiers with a view to re-calling them in some capacity or another.

Hope this helps.

Ed

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At the moment, I can only find reference to AO's 50 (February) and 265 (September) for 1917 pertaining to the issue of the SWB but I have seen this reference before.  However, I am in no doubt that Paragraph 2 b(i) is identical to that laid out in AO 265 thus:

"2. Under the amended conditions the badge will.......be issued only to the individuals specified below, who have served with the military forces subsequent to the 4th August, 1914:

b. Those who, having served as soldiers and being still of military age, have been discharged:

     

        (i) After service overseas in the armed Forces of the Crown, on account of disablement or ill-health caused otherwise than by misconduct."

AO 265 of September 1917 has its origins in the Military Service Act (No.3) passed earlier that year in April which, amongst other things, sought to (medically) re-examine discharged soldiers with a view to re-calling them in some capacity or another.

Hope this helps.

Ed

Ed!

First of all - thank you so much for your reply!

Second of all - I believe Granddad met all the criterior

And third of all - it still doesn't say why!! :rolleyes:

Would that be - because it was a psych diagnosis do you think - like shell shock etc ?

would he have been sent home right away? is there any way to find that out ?

Sorry! I have 25,000 more questions -!

Annie

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And third of all - it still doesn't say why!! 

Would that be - because it was a psych diagnosis do you think - like shell shock etc ?

would he have been sent home right away? is there any way to find that out ?

I'm afraid that the SWB rolls aren't, generally speaking, that prescriptive! In most cases, cause of discharge is cited in terms of Paragraph 392, King's Regulations (1912) or, as in your case, the relevant paragraph of the Army Order applicable at time of issue. Additionally, the term "sickness" or "wounds" is often included (sometimes abbreviated to "S" or "W" respectively) but not always.

Nevertheless, the rolls are sometimes a little more explicit (depending upon unit/office for example) and it is certainly not unusual (contrary to popular perception) to see various "nervous" disorders included under cause of discharge (neurasthenia, shell shock, DAH etc).

Of course, there are also the exceptions to the rule with the odd roll submitted in application for a single individual in which a great deal of information is given! Sadly, this is seldom the case.

In answer to your final question, I would suggest that the time taken to reach the UK would entirely depend upon the nature of his injuries but could be a matter of just days. Which unit did your relative serve with? In terms of time to discharge, I can tell you that my great-grandfather was badly burnt at Meaulte (Somme) in February 1917 and had been discharged from the Army by September although he was to continue to receive treatment at Netley Hospital for a considerable length of time post-discharge. Again, this is purely anecdotal and such timescales would depend upon the individuals personal circumstances.

As well as checking service papers, it might be possible that his medical records (or an element of) survive under class MH106 at the NA. These are a superb set of documents and include original charts, tags, medical history sheets, radiographs etc.

Hope the above is of some use.

Ed

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I'm afraid that the SWB rolls aren't, generally speaking, that prescriptive!  In most cases, cause of discharge is cited in terms of Paragraph 392, King's Regulations (1912) or, as in your case, the relevant paragraph of the Army Order applicable at time of issue.  Additionally, the term "sickness" or "wounds" is often included (sometimes abbreviated to "S" or "W" respectively) but not always.

Nevertheless, the rolls are sometimes a little more explicit (depending upon unit/office for example) and it is certainly not unusual (contrary to popular perception) to see various "nervous" disorders included under cause of discharge (neurasthenia, shell shock, DAH etc). 

Of course, there are also the exceptions to the rule with the odd roll submitted in application for a single individual in which a great deal of information is given!  Sadly, this is seldom the case.

In answer to your final question, I would suggest that the time taken to reach the UK would entirely depend upon the nature of his injuries but could be a matter of just days.  Which unit did your relative serve with? In terms of time to discharge, I can tell you that my great-grandfather was badly burnt at Meaulte (Somme) in February 1917 and had been discharged from the Army by September although he was to continue to receive treatment at Netley Hospital for a considerable length of time post-discharge.  Again, this is purely anecdotal and such timescales would depend upon the individuals personal circumstances.

As well as checking service papers, it might be possible that his medical records (or an element of) survive under class MH106 at the NA.  These are a superb set of documents and include original charts, tags, medical history sheets, radiographs etc.

Hope the above is of some use.

Ed

Hi Ed!

That's a very comprehensive reply!! even I understood it :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thank you very much for taking the time - I appreciate it !!

Annie

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Ian Hobart

Hi Guys

This is my first time on the forum - so I'm hoping someone can offer some help or point me in the right direction. Like Annie, I too have a medal card and an SWB card for my wife's gt grandfather Charles M Ogle of the Yorks Light Infantry. We think that he lied about his age to enlist and join his brothers on 15/11/16, and was discharged on 13/9/18 under AO 265/17 (possibly para. 2.81?) but do not know how to interpret the Army Order. We do know that he came home minus one arm and became the village postman - as it was the one useful job he felt he could do with only one arm! It would be nice to trace his actual discharge info though. Any ideas where to start?

Thanks in advance (because everyone seems to be so helpful!)

Ian

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