Royal Scots

[onesearch]

Hello Tim,

I see that you are interested in the 13th RS too.

I recently found out that my Grandfather John Shelford was with the 13th RS as a private & hence my growing interest in the battalion.

It seems he joined them late November or early December 1916 & I wondered if you had any records that might reveal which company he served in & or any other details of his service with them. I have his MIC, but his service records appear to have been lost during WW2.

Do you know of any photographs of the 13th over this time, either company or battalion ones or unattributed small groups/individuals? I found a couple on the IWM site that were attributed to the 13th but I do not think that they were certain that they were indeed the 13th.

I really want to read the war diary for the 13th RS from late 1916 to the end of the war to learn more about the unit but as it is not online its not so easy for me.

Anyhow if you have any information relating to this subject I would be greatfull yo hear from you,

best regards

Rod

[dycer]

Rod,

Check out the Photo Gallery Section of John Duncan's Web-site-Newbattle at War.

You'll find photos of Soldiers from most of the Battalions including some from the 13th,some are named.

George

[eltoro1960]

John, do you by any chance have the war diaries for the 9th RS for 1st - 12th April 1917

interesting discoveries in last burnt records prompts a partial switch from 8th btn to 9th btn.

very very much appreciated.

cheers

bullyman

Checked the War diary for the 8th , nobody leaving the battalion, men coming in though on the 4th and 5th April 5 from 2RS, 4 from 12RS and 2 from 11RS.

john

[eltoro1960]

I joined John's RS website (we both belong to same village of Newtongrange, but I left there in 1975 so I don't think we would have met) over the festive period, it is excellent and even has a photo of a distant relative of my father who was KIA in 1914.

Hi Joe , you are slightly older than me I think, which distant relative of your Dad did you find? We (did) share a common profession , you worked for the same outfit as dycers dad used to.

John

[rob ewing]

Researching 10th (2nd) Royal Scots - cyclist regiment. My great grandfather was in the TF at Berwick before being transfered to KOSB and Somme.

[jg2294]

Hi Joe , you are slightly older than me I think, which distant relative of your Dad did you find? We (did) share a common profession , you worked for the same outfit as dycers dad used to.

John

Hi John,

I see you have read my entry on your website! Did Dycer's dad work in Fife or just the same line of business and I assume you were L+B? Anyway my father's side of the family is very difficult to trace as only my mum is left and she is 84 (stays in 'the prefabs'), she thinks my dad's side were all miners and not involved, but of course she wouldn't really know much about them in relation to WW1. You may well have known or heard of my dad, Joe Peacock who died in 1997. Sgt Richard Peacock may be the distant relative (plenty of them in that neck of the woods!) who I think may have originated in Lasswade but seems to have the rest of his family in Newtongrange, the Square of course! I also found that a Nicol Peacock (who may have been my dad's father, only because he was Nicol as well) also from the Square in Nitten enlisted in 1914 but only stayed a few weeks before resigning under some form of legislation, he was a miner so I assume it was a reserve occupation matter. I intend to look more closely at them once I have done as much as I can with researching my Gt Grandfather Charles Stuart (from my mum's side of the family) who was with the 9th when he was killed at High Wood.

Incidentally, did you see my earlier post asking you if you had the diaries for the 12th from 3/6-29/9/15? My Gt Grandafather was with them when wounded at Loos. I planned to send the only photo of him I have to your own site once I got my act together (same one as my avatar)

Joe

[dycer]

Joe,

He worked in Fife. Number was 142,joined at Cupar 21st April 1919 and retired Cowdenbeath 11th May 1955.

I'll send you a personal message.

George

[eltoro1960]

Joe

I have a fair bit on the Peacocks, as you suggested born in Lasswade moved to Newtongrange, where they were neighbours of Great Grandparents. Dick is commemorated on Lasswade war memorial where he was born. He was a miner at Newbattle Colliery. The rest of the family were as follows.

Hugh Peacock who got married to a Miss Barclay, a teacher at Stobhill Primary School, her brother James Barclay a Pte in the RFC was the best man, most of the guests were members of the Eastern Star. Hugh got married on the Friday and enlisted a week later, in the Royal Scots Fusiliers later went to Black Watch.

The sister only listed as Miss Peacock worked in London in a miltary clerical job. Peter Peacock joined the Gordon Highlanders, a fourth brother was ready to come over from Australia but had a serious accident which ruled him out of the war.

As an aside there were Peacocks in Abbeyland , their brother in law john O'Brien was killed in action 21st September,1917. I live 6 doors away from the Peacocks old house.

I will get back to you re the diary for the 12th.

My wife knew your dad Joe as do in laws.

And finally still in 'job' ,in the home straight.

John

[jg2294]

John,

Thanks very much and it's not long going in! Wait until you start 'counting shirts'!

Abbeyland - had forgotten names like that!

Joe

[trishc]

Hi Tim,

I'm researching a Great Uncle who was with the 5/6 th Royal Scots, 251427 Robert Holmes Turner. I'm lucky to have his service record so know that he died of a GSW to the head on 17/9/17 and is buried at Zuydcoote cemetry.

I think two of his brothers were also in the Royal Scots, one Alexander Holmes Turner possibly with the 4/5th who served in Palestine and possibly Turkey, and one Gardner Turner but they are proving difficult to trace as I have no numbers for them.

I do have a few photos of them some of Alexander in trenches in the desert, I'd be happy to post them if anyone is interested.

They al hailed from Juniper Green near Edinburgh.

Trish

[clarkefamily51]

Trish:

Gardner Turner - 48625 - Royal Scots - entitled 2 medals - no date into theatre listed on MIC.

No AH Turner listed on MIC but an Alexander Turner is listed in 5/6th Bat - with entry into Gallipoli with that Bat 24/5/15. 250214

Richard

[eltoro1960]

Hi Trish

Echoing what Richard is saying, Gardner's number looks like one of the service Battalions 11th or 12th maybe, he is the only man of that name in the RS and went to France post 1/1/1916.

I have about 400+ photos of men from the 4th , 5th and 6th on my website if you wish a look, they are mostly of casualties.

Edit - I would like to see your photos and would also like to put them on my website, I know Malcolm would like to see them as your relatives come from his neck of the woods.

John

[trishc]

Thank you Richard and John, that's a great help.

John, would you like me to post the photos to your website? I will get them scanned and organised over the next few days.

Malcolm has been in touch with some useful info, our families turn out to have mutual friends...small world!

Your help is invaluable and much appreciated.

Trish

[jg2294]

Hi John,

Got your email and PDF of 12th's war diary. It is excellent and gives a good insight into what other actions my Gt Grandfather may have been involved in, The report on their involvement at Battle of Loos is particulary informative. Incidentally I have a copy of 9th's war diary from 1-23/7/16 which I (well my wife really since she works for 'the cooncil') can copy and send to you if you wish?

Joe

[eltoro1960]

Thank you Richard and John, that's a great help.

John, would you like me to post the photos to your website? I will get them scanned and organised over the next few days.

Malcolm has been in touch with some useful info, our families turn out to have mutual friends...small world!

Your help is invaluable and much appreciated.

Trish

Hi Trish

If you could email the pictures to me that would be great.

John

Hi John,

Got your email and PDF of 12th's war diary. It is excellent and gives a good insight into what other actions my Gt Grandfather may have been involved in, The report on their involvement at Battle of Loos is particulary informative. Incidentally I have a copy of 9th's war diary from 1-23/7/16 which I (well my wife really since she works for 'the cooncil') can copy and send to you if you wish?

Joe

Joe

No problem,re the diary that would be great, thanks

John

[jg2294]

John,

Sending you a PM.

Joe

[BottsGreys]

I am researching Lt. Henry Marshall Jardine, 6th RS, of whom I have a real photo postcard. Lt. Jardine was KIA 23/07/1916, the CWGC entry states that he was attached to the 2nd Battalion when killed. He is listed on Thiepval Memorial. MIC shows entitled to a trio (Entered Egypt Theatre 6/9/15) and reverse shows that his father resided in Portobello, Scotland. I was hoping perhaps someone might have some additional info about him or the 2nd's War Diary entry for the date he was killed--23 July '16.

Thanks,

Chris

[eltoro1960]

I have an ageing copy of Letters and Memorials by Lt William A Douglas, in a letter to his brother Robert dated 3rd July,1916 he makes mention of a number of transfers from the 5/6th as it was then, to other battalions, Douglas went to the 17th and "Jardine and Young went to the 2nd"

The battalion had landed in France at the end of May and was systematically carved up to supply other RS units.

The 2nd were detailed to attack trenches between Waterloo Farm and Guillemont as they had been the previous day, the attack was a shambles smoke shells dropped very short , some into the RS trenches , causing great confusion, D Company set off bang on time, B Company was delayed resulting in D Coy being hung out to dry and took heavy casualties despite taking their objectives. "Capt Cochrane was wounded, and his three subalterns (Including Jardine?) and the battalion bombing officer, LT C B Whittaker were amongst the slain."

Hope this assists.

John

[BottsGreys]

I have an ageing copy of Letters and Memorials by Lt William A Douglas, in a letter to his brother Robert dated 3rd July,1916 he makes mention of a number of transfers from the 5/6th as it was then, to other battalions, Douglas went to the 17th and "Jardine and Young went to the 2nd"

The battalion had landed in France at the end of May and was systematically carved up to supply other RS units.

The 2nd were detailed to attack trenches between Waterloo Farm and Guillemont as they had been the previous day, the attack was a shambles smoke shells dropped very short , some into the RS trenches , causing great confusion, D Company set off bang on time, B Company was delayed resulting in D Coy being hung out to dry and took heavy casualties despite taking their objectives. "Capt Cochrane was wounded, and his three subalterns (Including Jardine?) and the battalion bombing officer, LT C B Whittaker were amongst the slain."

Hope this assists.

John

Hi John:

Thanks so much for the swift and informative reply--great stuff, and I appreciate your efforts. I can provide you a scan of the Jardine photo, if you wish.

Chris

[eltoro1960]

Hi Chris that would be excellent, I would like to put in the gallery of my website.

John

[eltoro1960]

Further to my earlier post re Henry Jardine, it appears that William Douglas and he were friends back in Portobello where Henry's dad was a minister. Here are some extracts from the book.

"Inchkeith, 8/12/14.

I was very pleased to get your letter to-day.

My cold is nearly all right now, and we have

flitted to the S.E. end of the Island. Jardine

and I are in together, and Adams is going to

come later."

En route to Egypt

" We met Jardine and some more of the boys, and proceeded to buy some lace. It was great fun.

The man named his price, you then offered him something about half his figure, and he offered

to toss you. Some of them tossed and lost, but I adopted the tactics of wearing down the enemy, and eventually got some lace, which I

will send on when I get the chance, but I don't want it to go astray. It looks rather nice, but my education in the lace line has been neglected.

Did you get the last post-card I sent ? I could not put much on it. When I got up in the morning Malta was in the distance, and I was

sorry that we hadn't a chance of seeing it in daylight. It was very warm there, even after dark, so must be about unbearable in the sun. "

Egypt

"The bottom of the tent is sand, and from 8 a.m. till 4 p.m. you can hardly move for heat. We can't parade during the day, and all our work is either

done before 8 a.m. or after 5 p.m. Bally, Jardine, and I are in one tent, and are very comfortable and cheery."

"Jardine has his eye on a carpet, 6 feet by 3 (about). The price is 500, and it is a beauty. He knows someone at home who wants one. "

Western Frontier Force,

B.M.E.F., Egypt, 14/12/15-

"No doubt you have heard that the Battalion has been in action. " A " and " B " Companies formed the General Reserve, so that I was not in the show at all. " C " Company, under Major Milligan, evidently bore the brunt, as the Major himself was wounded, so was Lieut. Jardine and Lieut. N. Henderson. Fourteen of the rank and file have been wounded, and unfortunately three have been killed. The remainder are all in Camp now, and are well and cheery, and the

wounded Officers are all away to Alexandria on a comfortable hospital ship."

"We are all fit and cheery, and often recall incidents at Peebles, Selkirk, Melrose, and the other places where our caravan has rested.

Milligan and Jardine are still in Alexandria. I may see them soon, as the Officers here are getting seven days' leave."

"Jardine has rejoined us, but Milligan is remaining in Alexandria."

"I am posted to the 17th R.S., and will shortly have to set out and look for it. We are all (up to and including Captains) posted to R.S. Battalions ;

Jardine and Young to the 2nd, and in consequence they look down on Kitchener chaps like myself, and Terriers are quite beneath their notice !"

William Douglas was killed in action a few weeks after Henry on the Somme , here is a letter from Henry's dad to Mr Douglas

From Rev. JAMES JARDINE, Portobello.

"I feel as though I had lost another brother in the death of your dear son Willie. May God give you strength to bear up under this terrible

blow. Since Henry's death, a few weeks ago, I have not been so deeply affected as by Willie's death. As you know, he was one of Henry's

best friends. When Henry was a private in the 6th, he often told us of the many kindnesses he had received from your son, and when they

became brother Officers they were much together. One of our greatest regrets when the 6th was broken up was that Henry would be

separated from Willie. They are not long separated, however ; they have both met now in a fuller life and a higher service. I count it a

great privilege to have known your son. He was a fine Christian gentleman, a good soldier, and also a good soldier of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Death has no terror and no sting for a man like him, and our grief, though deep, can have no regrets. We who have known him must strive

to live worthy of his memory and of the great sacrifice he has made. May all divine consolations be yours. "

And so the lads were reunited in death.

John

You can download a copy of the book from the Internet Archive here is the link

[BottsGreys]

John:

I have PM'd you.

Thanks for the additional info, again--great stuff and very appreciated. Below is Lt. Jardine. Notice that he appears to have signed the card "Harry" which is sometimes used as a nickname for Henry. He wears Royal Scots collar badges with a "T" Based on the info you provided, the word under his name must be "Inchkeith and then "Dec./14"

The reverse of the card is also interesting--written is: "Sergt. Fourgrave Machine Gun Section 6th Batt Royal Scots Inchkeith 1914"

Chris

[dycer]

Chris,

If you have not already done so.

If you type in "Inchkeith" in a general Internet search engine,you'll find and see information and photos about and of the Island.

George

[BottsGreys]

Hi George:

Did as you suggested and found some nice photos and its history via Google, and one was a view of the island from Lt. Jardine's hometown of Portobello. Inchkeith certainly has had an interesting history. It looks to be pretty cold out there in the dead of winter.

Chris

[jg2294]

John,

Sending you a PM.

Joe

John,

Thats the 9th batt. diary on its way should have it by Monday, you should be able to resize it to A4 I would think and that way you can delete the notation I made relating to the action in which my

Gt. Grandfather was killed on 22nd July 1916.

Joe