Conscientous Objectors

[PilgrimDuke]

There was an article in my local paper (Vallejo Times-Herald), 6/19/2005, writer Robert McCockran) about conscientious objectors in the current war and there was an attached graphic about the numbers of U.S. objectors in various wars.

According to the article "The Center on Conscience and War (CCW), which was formed in 1940 by an association of religious bodies to defend and extend the rights of conscientious bojectors keeps records on the number of conscientious objectors during major U.S. conflicts." Relevant figures given are:

Great War 3,500

World War II 37,000

Korea 4,300

Vietnam 200,000

[BeppoSapone]

There was an article in my local paper (Vallejo Times-Herald), 6/19/2005, writer Robert McCockran) about conscientious objectors in the current war and there was an attached graphic about the numbers of U.S. objectors in various wars. 

According to the article "The Center on Conscience and War (CCW), which was formed in 1940 by an association of religious bodies to defend and extend the rights of conscientious bojectors keeps records on the number of conscientious objectors during major U.S. conflicts."  Relevant figures given are:

Great War  3,500

World War II  37,000

Korea  4,300

Vietnam  200,000

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How many for Iraq?

[PilgrimDuke]

Beppo, in response to your question about how many U.S. conscientious objectors for Iraq, the same article that I referenced states that for the Army, from 2001 through April, 110 applications for CO status out of 196 were approved, with 86 disapproved. For the Air Force from 1999 through April 67 out of 115 were approved. 48 were disapporved. 12 of the approved were from officers. For the Navy, 28 out of 43 were approved. 11 were disapproved and 4 are pending. For the Marines from 2000 through April 2005, 36 of 77 were approved, 40 were disapproved and 1 was returned.

This doesn't answer the question exactly because of the differences in dates, but it gives you one idea. One would expect the figures to be fairly low since the U.S. Military is an all volunteer force and there isn't conscription, so most people joining are comfortable with the basic mission of the military from the beginning.

This is not intended to be a commentary on the current political situation and I hope that it comes across as a recitation of facts and not a pro or anti Iraq war commentary.

[BeppoSapone]

Beppo, in response to your question about how many U.S. conscientious objectors for Iraq, the same article that I referenced states that for the Army, from 2001 through April, 110 applications for CO status out of 196 were approved, with 86 disapproved.  For the Air Force from 1999 through April 67 out of 115 were approved.  48 were disapporved.  12 of the approved were from officers.  For the Navy, 28 out of 43 were approved.  11 were disapproved and 4 are pending.  For the Marines from 2000 through April 2005, 36 of 77 were approved, 40 were disapproved and 1 was returned. 

This doesn't answer the question exactly because of the differences in dates, but it gives you one idea.  One would expect the figures to be fairly low since the U.S. Military is an all volunteer force and there isn't conscription, so most people joining are comfortable with the basic mission of the military from the beginning.

This is not intended to be a commentary on the current political situation and I hope that it comes across as a recitation of facts and not a pro or anti Iraq war commentary.

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Thanks for that, interesting.

As you say the US Military are all volunteers, as are the British. I would imagine that the majority of people applying to become COs are people who were out of the service, but still on the reserve etc.

Never did understand how someone can apply to be a CO and be turned down. It does not make sense to me, but that's the army for you

[reformbill]

Beppo cannot understand how anyone claiming conscientious objection could be turned down. There are few ways of evading conscription and military service. Claiming conscientious objection would be worth trying if one was desperate to avoid being called up. I am aware of cases during the Second World War where such false claims were made with varying degrees of success.

[PilgrimDuke]

Reformbill, the article didn't go into a great deal of detail about what it took to get CO status during the Great War. It does state that "Conscientious objector status was granted to members of pacifist religious organizations, but they were required to perform alternative service."

The current standards for the U.S. Army state that "The Army will consider claims based soley on conscientious objections that grew out of an individual's experiences before entering military service but did not become fixed until afterward." There is also an emphasis that objections can not be because of a specific war.

With the exception of Viet Nam, the stats seem to be pretty low with people knowing that a fairly rigid standard would be applied. WW 2 seems to have a fairly large number, but I assume that is because many more people fell into the conscription net.

[bernardmcilwaine]

i could never fathom out what they objected too,if you look at some of the cases of CO in this country during ww1,the reasons for their objections varied,i dont think any of them had a case,the only thing close to being a bona fide objection,would be who your country was fighting at the time,EG,german immigrants during ww1,some volunteered others objected,i can understand their objection because i would hate to think ide pulled the trigger on one of my german relatives if i was in their shoes,but the rest have no case,here are some of the reasons they give,and my answers.

dont want to take anothers life --neither do i

dont want to wear a uniform--neither do i [or the wife]

i have a family --so has everyone else

dont want to be killed --neither do i

its against my religion --its against everyones religion,no holy book preaches war,only against evil

we all agree with their objections,but when your country is at risk you do whats neccessary,neither your god nor fellow man would condemn you for that,here endeth,bernard

[BeppoSapone]

Beppo cannot understand how anyone claiming conscientious objection could be turned down.  There are few ways of evading conscription and military service. Claiming conscientious objection would  be worth trying if one was desperate to avoid being called up. I am  aware of  cases during the Second World War where such false claims were made with varying degrees of success.

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ReformBill

During WW1 a large % of people who applied to be Conscientious Objectors were turned down. Some of these people went to prison on bread and water, and a fair few died.

In the case of Brighton at one stage it was possible to 'slip' an official £5 and have your papers 'lost', and yet men who did not want to kill spent up to three years in prison, despite being offered 'cushy' alternative work on the land or in industry. Two of the Brighton men died.

Being an "Absolutist" Conscientious Objector in WW1 was, in many ways, worse than being in the army. I don't think I would have been brave enough to do it.

My point is that then, as now, it takes more guts to apply to be a C.O. than it takes to conform. Anyone who feels strongly enough to apply is not just doing it to 'wangle' a cushy billet.