bernardmcilwaine Posted 19 June , 2005 Posted 19 June , 2005 i stand corrected if ime wrong about this,a territorial soldier cant earn two efficiency medalswith one term of service,if hes got two,does it mean he earned one then left and later rejoined and earned a second,anyone any ideas,bernard
Mark Abbott Posted 19 June , 2005 Posted 19 June , 2005 Bernard, It is possible for a soldier to hold two territorial medals. He may for example have qualified for a Territorial Force Efficiency Medal (TFEM) prior to 1921 and then qualified for a Territorial Efficiency Medal (TEM) for service up to 1930. I have had examples in my collection. Hope this helps Mark
joseph Posted 19 June , 2005 Posted 19 June , 2005 Bernard, Surley he would just get a bar, technicaly a second award, I have seen TEM and TD in same group. Charles
roy litchfield Posted 19 June , 2005 Posted 19 June , 2005 Bernard, I have in my collection the medals of Sjt. Thomas Allwood. The group is mounted for wear and consists of - 1914-15 trio, 1742 Pte. Notts & Derby, TFEM, Geo. V bare head to 4961129 Sjt. 7th. Forresters, (instituted 1908) Efficiency Medal, Geo V crowned head, bar Territorial to 4961129 WO CL II, 7th. Forresters, (instituted 1930) WWII War medal The double long service combination is not that unusual. This group is as worn even to the extent of the WWII medal hanging on a soldered extention to the medal bar. Best wishes Roy
Terry Posted 19 June , 2005 Posted 19 June , 2005 Two examples. First, my father. He joined the Canadian militia in 1937; served throughout the war (UK, Sicily, Italy, NW Europe) and received the Canadian type Efficiency Medal. After the war the government introduced the Canadian Forces Decoration for all ranks. Dad has told me that he was given a choice when the time came to either apply for a clasp for his EM or apply for the new CD. He went for the CD. A second example is in my collection, and I have mentioned it before. W.W.Melville was a militiaman who joined the 1st Brighton Field Engineer Company in 1889, and in 1908 was awarded the Colonial Forces Long Service Medal (EdVII obverse) named to him as a captain. On the outbreak of war he became the OC 1st Field Sqn.,Canadian Engineers, and as such took that unit to France.His age (mid-40's) took its toll and he was back in Canada by early 1916. However he was at the front throughout the fighting in 1915. On June 15 at Givenchy he was buried by the debris of a shell explosion. He ended the war at lieutenant colonel and commanded training depots in Canada. Melville apparently retired in 1921. However, in the early 30's he was awarded a second CAFLSM, probably in error instead of the officer's decoration. the second medal is named to him as a lieutenant colonel. Clerical error? Who knowes, but it makes for an unusual looking group!
bernardmcilwaine Posted 19 June , 2005 Author Posted 19 June , 2005 thanks alot folks,the group is similar to the one mentioned,joe the bar is awarded for additional 6yr periods,top class bit of info many thanks,bernard
KevW Posted 24 June , 2005 Posted 24 June , 2005 Hi, I think Bernard asked this for me. He has told about this site so i joined. It is my grandad that has two, If i can work out how to post pictures i will. The rims have his number and name on both, exactly the same. Different images of the king .
KevW Posted 24 June , 2005 Posted 24 June , 2005 And the other one. Kev. Can somebody just clarify for me how he managed this.
roy litchfield Posted 25 June , 2005 Posted 25 June , 2005 Hi Kev, Can you post details of your g/dad's full medal group. He has the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal and The Efficiency Medal, both with second award bars. The TFEM was instituted in 1908 and bars were awarded after 12yrs. service. The EM was instituted in 1930, bars as for TFEM. I believe war service counted double. The rosettes would have been worn on his ribbon bar, ie, when medals were not being worn. Best wishes Roy
KevW Posted 25 June , 2005 Posted 25 June , 2005 Hi Roy, i can post the picture of his bar. As far as i know. L to R War(WWI) , victory, Territorial war medal,39-45 star,africa star(1st army bar),italy star,Defense, War(WWII), and two terrotorial efficiency medals(with bars and rosettes).
KevW Posted 25 June , 2005 Posted 25 June , 2005 and just cos i like them!!! my great grandads medals.
roy litchfield Posted 26 June , 2005 Posted 26 June , 2005 Hi Kev, What an excellent long service group covering both world wars. The original question was "is it possible for a soldier to hold two Territorial long service medals?" The answer is yes and your G/F has done it in style with a bar to each medal as well! What's his unit? Best wishes Roy
KevW Posted 26 June , 2005 Posted 26 June , 2005 My grandad and great grandad were both in the 1/6th Gloustershire regiment. I also like the volunteer long service medal of my great grandads, it looks like my mum my have tryed to clean it a few years ago!!, but its a nice medal still, and his MSM of course. Kev.
Davben Posted 30 June , 2005 Posted 30 June , 2005 Roy, Would a Territorial serviceman qualify for a TFEM or EM if he re-joined the services after 1918 and ended up discharging in 1937 ? can you help ? Dave B.
roy litchfield Posted 30 June , 2005 Posted 30 June , 2005 Dave B, In answer to your question I can only give you chapter & verse from the Medal Yearbook and leave the Maths. to you. TFEM. instituted 1908 for 12yrs. service, with a 2nd. award bar for further 12 yrs. service, war service counted double. TEM. instituted 1921 following the elevation of the Territorial Force to the Territorial Army Efficiency Medal instituted 1930 for 12 yrs. service, with 2nd. award bar for 6 yrs. service, war service counted double. Could be a TEM or a EM? Best wishes Roy. (Hope this helps) PS. Can you please ask those large All Black forwards to be gentle with that nice young Mr. Henson on Saturday.
Davben Posted 1 July , 2005 Posted 1 July , 2005 Thanks Roy, Good points of interest , I`ll try and piece together some timelines. I`ll have a word with the Captain of the AB`s to watch his tackling techniques, but somehow I think he may get a lesson of some other description !!! Kia Ora Dave B.
roy litchfield Posted 1 July , 2005 Posted 1 July , 2005 Dave B, Sorry to leave you with the Maths. I'm intrigued by your signing off "Kia Ora". I recently aquired a pair of medals to Pte. E.W. Harvey of the 15th. Londons (Civil Service Rifles), KIA 15/9/16 during the attack on High Wood. His parents lived at No. 1, Kia Ora Cottages, Ryecroft Ave. St. Neots, in the old county of Huntingdonshire. The cottages are still there and they have a plaque, "Kia Ora Cottages, built 1914" Can you let me know what Kia Ora means? I'm sure Saturday's game will be interesting. Best wishes Roy
KevW Posted 1 July , 2005 Posted 1 July , 2005 Dave B, Sorry to leave you with the Maths. I'm intrigued by your signing off "Kia Ora". I recently aquired a pair of medals to Pte. E.W. Harvey of the 15th. Londons (Civil Service Rifles), KIA 15/9/16 during the attack on High Wood. His parents lived at No. 1, Kia Ora Cottages, Ryecroft Ave. St. Neots, in the old county of Huntingdonshire. The cottages are still there and they have a plaque, "Kia Ora Cottages, built 1914" Can you let me know what Kia Ora means? I'm sure Saturday's game will be interesting. Best wishes Roy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Roy try this link kia ora Kev
squirrel Posted 6 July , 2005 Posted 6 July , 2005 I think it is Maori but I don't know what it means.
bernardmcilwaine Posted 6 July , 2005 Author Posted 6 July , 2005 i have a soldier whos parents lived at kia ora in devon/cornwall,i thought it was orange juice bernard seriously,its moari for hello/goodbye
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