Le Canal Seine - Nord

[Hedley Malloch]

About three years ago I posted that there was a project to build a new super-canal to link Cambrai and Compiègne. Today's edition of La Voix du Nord announces that this project has been given the green light.

While the final route of the canal is not yet settled, its general direction takes it thrugh the heart of the '17 and '18 battlefields on a line from from Compiègne - Noyon - Péronne - Cambrai. It will run parallel and close to the exisitng Canal du Nord. It will be 105 kilometres long, 54 metres wide, and include seven or eight locks each 180 metres long. The cost is estimated at 3 billion euros. Public consultations begin in 2006, the work itself in 2008 and it wil be commissioned in 2008.

You can find a copy of the article and the map showing the proposed line of the canal at

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/vdn/journal/200...GION/ART1.phtml

It is clear that the canal's construction will have many implications for the many cemeteries and sites of remembrance in this area.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Hedley,

Do you know if there is yet any information about what will be done to preserve cemeteries and sites of remembrance and about any archaeological investigations along the route of the canal?

[Bert Heyvaert]

The new French prime minister promised some major public works to help raise employpment in France... Et voilà, there we are, just a few weeks later the canal gets the go-ahead sign...

[Hedley Malloch]

Hedley,

Do you know if there is yet any information about what will be done to preserve cemeteries and sites of remembrance and about any archaeological investigations along the route of the canal?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

None whatsoever. The decision has been taken, and local consultations will take place starting in 2006. The final line of the Canal has yet to be decided, but it will have a big effect especially between St. Quentin and Cambrai where memorials and cemeteries are thick on the ground. Even if none are disturbed it will greatly change the nature of the countryside which today is much as it was in 1917-18. When the Canal was first mooted about three years ago the CWGC said that they knew about the proposal.

The news is a reminder that the biggest industry in the Nord/Pas de Calais region is logistics and that that activity is the biggest threat to the battlefields

[Graham-McAdam]

Also a couple of years ago was announced a plan for a new Autoroute from Amiens to south of Lille via Bethune and the 1915 battlefields. Has any more been heard of that in Voix du Nord etc. I do look accasionally but all seems quiet.

[Hedley Malloch]

Graham;

I have not heard anything and there is nothing about it on the website of the Societé which runs the autoroutes in Nord and Pas-de-Calais. See http://www.sanef.com/fr/ for details.

There are proposals to privatise the French motorway system; it's the only part of the French public sector which makes a profit and could be sold. Decisons on new motorway projects may be on hold until the future of the network is resolved. But I don't know ... .

[Patrick @ IFF]

More about the consultations for the new canal (in French):

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/050621/226/4gzrk.html

Until September 2005 about 30 meetings will take place.

5 of them are for the general public (Compiège, Cambrai, Péronne, Lille and Paris).

Somewhere at the end of the year, a report will be despatched to local communities and several organizations.

[Hedley Malloch]

There is an article in today's La Voix du Nord extolling the virtues of the new canal for the economic prospects of the region. Main points include that the new canal will involve:

* widening existing canals;

* raising 27 road bridges and 6 rail bridges;

* the re-opening of at least one canal;

* re-routing the A29 (Amiens-St.Quentin);

* buildng a new canal bridge across the river Somme more than 1.5 kilometres long, 40 metres above the river;

* a new industrial zone for Cambrai '9 kilos west of the town' (which places it right in the heart of the '17 battlefields).

The canal's construction will employ more than 8000+ people and will be the first major canal construction project in France for more than 40 years.

[JimSmithson]

Just to raise this issue back to the light of day. My information (from a very good source) is that there will be no investigation of any Great War evidence that is found in digging. Protests have been long and hard but the decision is made. Money talks.

Jim

[Hedley Malloch]

I was in St. Quentin last week. At the road-side there are are signs announcing that work is about to start.

[JimSmithson]

Yes it is but be warned - don't go poking about if you think they are in a Great War area - you might get more than you bargained for and I don't mean buried explosives. I suppose if you were really unlucky they could get you first.

Jim

[Stuart212]

Can someone please post a map of the proposed route as the previous links no longer work.

Many thanks.

Stuart

[leighc]

There's quite a bit online about it with a bit of judicious googling.. Here's an overview map

http://fluvial-canal.niloo.fr/wp-content/uploads/carte-seine-nord.jpg

I'm particularly interested in it's effect on the canal crossing between Villers Carbonnel and Brie where my great-uncle won a MM on 29 Aug 18 with the 31st Bn AIF. It appears the new canal duplicates the current Canal du Nord slightly to it's west. Question is then will the current canal remain operational?

[Stuart212]

Thanks Leighc,

Its difficult to see from the map, but it does seem in parts to follow the route of the Canal du Nord , do you know if it will run in parallel or are they actually widening the existing canal in places ?

Many thanks.

Stuart

[leighc]

Thanks Leighc,

Its difficult to see from the map, but it does seem in parts to follow the route of the Canal du Nord , do you know if it will run in parallel or are they actually widening the existing canal in places ?

Many thanks.

Stuart

No idea I'm afraid Stuart. I've only just started looking into it. There's a number of documents online pertaining to the program but my French isn't that hot I'm afraid.

cheers

Leigh

[Stuart212]

No idea I'm afraid Stuart. I've only just started looking into it. There's a number of documents online pertaining to the program but my French isn't that hot I'm afraid.

cheers

Leigh

Many thanks anyway Leigh.

Stuart

[Hedley Malloch]

There's quite a bit online about it with a bit of judicious googling.. Here's an overview map

http://fluvial-canal.niloo.fr/wp-content/uploads/carte-seine-nord.jpg

I'm particularly interested in it's effect on the canal crossing between Villers Carbonnel and Brie where my great-uncle won a MM on 29 Aug 18 with the 31st Bn AIF. It appears the new canal duplicates the current Canal du Nord slightly to it's west. Question is then will the current canal remain operational?

As I recall the project comprıses ımprovements and addıtıons, The organısatıon responsıble for the canal upgrade ıs the VNF. Theır websıte ıs http://www.vnf.fr The sıte has pages ın Englısh, but there ıs nothıng about the development on the sıte. Thıs could mean that the dıscussıon phase ıs over and the project ıs now ın the operatıonal phase, As I saıd, the "Danger: men at work" sıgns can be seen around St. Quentın.

Try the CWGC. They would have been consulted ıf any of theır sıtes had been ınvolved.

[Martin Bennitt]

French government and construction company officials are indicating that this project is unlikely to start soon, if ever. Estimated costs have ballooned and financial help will have to be sought from the EU and elsewhere, which in the current economic climate will not be forthcoming.

The government has taken the usual step and called for another report

We can breathe again, at least for some time

cheers Martin B

[Seadog]

This will be of interest, posted by me on another thread and translated from an article in the French newspaper La Voix Du Nord dated 11^th November 2012 in a piece about the CWGC Exhumation Officer based in Beaurains.

“A year ago the Englishman Paul Bird was appointed. For twenty years he worked there (CWGC) as a horticulture supervisor. His father, Roger, was construction manager and his sister Laura was also employed at the headquarters of Beaurains. Last year Julian Blake decided to leave his position as exhumation officer

It also acts as recently in Henin-sur-Cojeul. On the route of the Seine-Nord canal was also found many bodies. (Unedited)"

Norman

[Martin Bennitt]

This project has raised its ugly head again. The French parliament gave the green light last month for a relaunch, with work to start in 2017 and completion by 2023. You have been warned.

Cheers Martin B

[egbert]

All previous links w/r to the geography of the canal do not work anymore. Does someone know the exact route of the canal please?

[Old Tom]

If one Googles Le Canal Seine - Nord there is lots of information including a number of maps. I have not yet foundone in a large scale.

Old Tom

[Old Tom]

The document below is in English and contains a map which gives a reasonable idea of the route. It mentions

certain impacts on current military installations but not historic.

http://www.vnf.fr/sne/IMG/pdf/Information_file_web.pdf

Old Tom