Cruising under water

[John_Hartley]

Trawling through the newspaper archives this morning, I came across an advert for Phosferine and I immediately thought of Richard. Unfortunately the library’s print facility was down so I can’t reproduce the advert but this is the text. It carried a recommendation from R Humphrey,, Leading Stoker, HM Submarines

“Your wonderful tonic Phosferine has kept me on my feet. I have been just over ten years in the Navy and when I joined the submarines a few years ag, I could not get used to them and felt run down in health and strength. I felt it most when I am in long dives under the sea. I have spent any amount of money in medicines and none did me any good till I was telling one of my old shipmates a few weeks ago about how much I was down in health and how weak I am through serving in submarinesand he told me how Phosferine kept him on his feet. He told me to try the same, so I did, and I can tell you Phosferine has done for me more than any other medicine I have ever had. Before I took Phosferine I was in an unhealthy condition and since taking it I have my heart in my work and I can do anything and go anywhere which I could not do before taking Phosferine.

This leading Submarine Stoker considers Phosferine is the only specific which enables him to endure physical and mental strain of cruising under water – Phosferine ensures that the nerve organisms produce the extra vital force to with stand the vigourous conditions daily experienced

When you require the Best Tonic Medecine, see that you get Phosferine – a proven remedy for:-

Nervous debility; Sleeplessness; Exhaustion; Loss of Appetite, Faintness; Bachache; Hysteria; Influenza; Indigestion; Lassitude; Neuritia; Neuralgia; Premature Decay; Maternity Weakness; Mental Exhaustion; Brain-Fag; Anaemia; Rheumatism; Headache; Sciatica”

Phosferine was available for at 3 shillings for 90 doses. I wish you could still get it – I suffer terribly from Brain-fag and Premature Decay.

[Dragon]

What on earth was it made of?

Is Bachache the result of too much Classic FM?

And was maternity weakness, as applied to submarine stokers, a euphemism?

Gwyn

[NIGEL]

I can only imagine it contained Phosphorus John which burst into flames when it dries out and was also used in the first matches that you used to by and put in those little silver victorian matchboxes---------trouble is it causes Cancer ( dosent everything ) and used to give smokers cancer of the jaw

[DirtyDick]

Cheers. John, most interesting article there (although I had hoped it would be a sub-aqua pervs society).

I have an old 1915 Punch almanac with similar ads: "And why should you believe me? Because I am an Englishman; and because Lord and Lady Thicktwistle imbide of my brain tonic." etc.

There were an awful lot of hazards involved with submarine service in WW1: lack of sleep, no bunks, poor diet and lack of exercise, coupled with constant nervous strain (1/3 death rate - hardly surprising). This is aside from inhabiting an environment in which oxygen was often scarce after 10 hours underwater, placing great strain on their cardio-vascular systems. Hence why submariners had to be in A1 health.

Moreover, the unshaded lightbulbs, which provided the only source of illumination for most of the crew for up to 2 weeks at a time, was thought to provoke anxiety and listlessness; this concern was not addressed until post-WW1.

Prior to and during WW1, submariners were held in high regard (almost like fighter pilots in 1940) by the Public, and the demands of their day-to-day lives, aside from fighting, was common knowledge. Unsurprisingly, he would make a perfect advert for the capabilities of a 'nerve tonic'.

Thanks once again, John,

Ricardo

[John_Hartley]

(although I had hoped it would be a sub-aqua pervs society).

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The piccie that accompanied the advert showed a group of sailors having what I suspect at the time might have been described as a "gay time in the rigging" (did subs have rigging?)

Gwyn - Bachache is what happens when you have too much premature decay that you kant tiip propurli.

[DirtyDick]

The piccie that accompanied the advert showed a group of sailors having what I suspect at the time might have been described as a "gay time in the rigging" (did subs have rigging?)

Gwyn - Bachache is what happens when you have too much premature decay that you kant tiip propurli.

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No rigging, I'm afraid; nor even room for a tub (as in: Your turn in the tub) .

Given its manifold curative effects, I am surprised it is no longer on sale. Perhaps it was a bad idea to have a typical WW1 submariner as the face of the product: bad breath and dirty teeth, probably stained with chewing tobacco; a sallow complexion from lack of sunlight; unkempt hair and stubble; boils and spots and constipated; and a filthy, grease-stained jumper that had not been removed for a fortnight.

"Phosferine - because I'm worth it." Clinically proven to de-crinkle the internal organs as well as being 99% effective against Agent X germaloids, a common cause behind premature ageing.

Ricardo

[Dragon]

It seems a bit more than a nerve ‘tonic’!

A quick surf told me that one of its ingredients is valerian (a herb with rather delicately white-pink-toned inflorescences which looks a bit like cow parsley – some of us grow it in case we fancy brewing its roots to relieve insomnia). So the stressed submariner would be carrying out his job with a chemical which behaves like a weak benzodiazepine swishing round in his system, particularly if he self-medicated with a lot of it. Not something we’d countenance today, though valerian doesn’t tend to cause the lingering next-day drowsiness which often accompany benzodiazepines.

(And, if he found himself unfortunately pregnant, he’d be well advised to stop taking it, whatever it said on the label...)

Richard, thanks for the insight into the demanding conditions. How did they address the effects of stress and anxiety, as you said, post WW1?

Gwyn

Ps John, thakn you for the insite into premmachure deckay. I awate it joifully. How nice to be abel to switch off those skwiggly red lines in Werd and say soddit if its speld wrong, it is my prematchure decai.

[DirtyDick]

Richard, thanks for the insight into the demanding conditions. How did they address the effects of stress and anxiety, as you said, post WW1?

Gwyn

Gwyn

They didn't really do a great deal until the 1940s (although they did reduce the intensity of the interior lighting!). Conditions aboard in WW2 were very similar - a few luxuries, such as bunks, however - and the death rate percentage was, eerily, almost exactly the same.

During WW1, those deemed to be worn out mentally or physically - this was a common problem - were sent to recuperate on the depot ship with the spare crew (submariners who were replacements for illness/transfers amongst the submarines of the flotilla). This was criticised by naval doctors as being ineffective, although they did agree that those with the "wind up" should be removed from active service.

They couldn't really do a lot during the War, given the need for boats at sea, so there were many cases of breakdowns. Moreover, it was new territory and in 1914 very little was known about the effects of men being cooped up in such conditions for the duration of a wartime patrol (which invariably meant they would remain underwater during daylight), with very little rest in between patrols.

By 1920, however, a scheme had been put in place to remove such officers - for officers were seen as peculiarly susceptible to this, most likely due as much to their increased responsibility and workload as to the belief that 'the men' were not as sensitive as 'gentlemen'. The addition of more officers amongst post-WW1 submarine crews helped alleviate a lot of this pressure.

During WW2, commanding officers were usually allowed to resign their post - or be removed - if they were showing any signs of such 'weakness' or lack of aggression in their tactics. This was due to the realisation that an overwrought CO could very easily lead to a boat being sunk and valuable (i.e. experienced) crewmembers going with it. Once again, subordinate officers and ratings had no such option, albeit there was generally a more enlightened approach to fatigue in WW2.

Richard

[John_Hartley]

valerian (a herb with rather delicately white-pink-toned inflorescences which looks a bit like cow parsley – some of us grow it in case we fancy brewing its roots to relieve insomnia).

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This is turning out to be quite a good thread. I'm learning a lot.

There's all the submarine stuff which is interesting - glad I didnt copy out the advert featuring the RFA man.

And I didnt know about the medicinal Valerian stuff - I grow it coz it's pretty.

And that's what then squiggly lines in Word are for. Well, well, well.

John

[spike10764]

It seems a bit more than a nerve ‘tonic’!

Not something we’d countenance today, though valerian doesn’t tend to cause the lingering next-day drowsiness which often accompany benzodiazepines.

Richard, thanks for the insight into the demanding conditions. How did they address the effects of stress and anxiety, as you said, post WW1?

Gwyn

.

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Benzodiazepines.

Is that like a herbal version of Proplus then Gwyn? God help the poor submariners if they were taking something like that.....

[kaisersoffensive]

typical WW1 submariner as the face of the product: bad breath and dirty teeth, probably stained with chewing tobacco; a sallow complexion from lack of sunlight; unkempt hair and stubble; boils and spots and constipated; and a filthy, grease-stained jumper that had not been removed for a fortnight.

Hang on a minute!

I'm sure they were good wholesome individuals.

Besides phospherine ( which I am sure was very similar in its benificial action

as Metatone ie soluble iron complex with additional vitamins} was efficacious for piles,fistulas and glandular swellings.

Something Ricardo is no stranger to.

[kaisersoffensive]

typical WW1 submariner as the face of the product: bad breath and dirty teeth, probably stained with chewing tobacco; a sallow complexion from lack of sunlight; unkempt hair and stubble; boils and spots and constipated; and a filthy, grease-stained jumper that had not been removed for a fortnight.

Hang on a minute!

I'm sure they were good wholesome individuals.

Besides phospherine ( which I am sure was very similar in its benificial action

as Metatone ie soluble iron complex with additional vitamins} was efficacious for piles,fistulas and glandular swellings.

Something Ricardo is no stranger to.

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My sincere apologies to Ricardo.

Naturally I meant Dirty Dick.

Must stop taking this stuff.

Nurse,Nurse where are you........

[Dragon]

Benzodiazepines.

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... are tranquillisers, eg Valium.

Richard, thank you for the very informative answer about conditions and stress. It sounds the absolute pits. Cracking up and then being unable to leave the ship for the duration of the patrol sounds terrifying for the man concerned - and must have been very alarming for his colleagues.

John - you use the rutes. Can send resipie. Did not do aromer-therappy corse for nothin. Tho bru-ing rutes is not arromatherapie. O no.

Gwyn

[spike10764]

... are tranquillisers, eg Valium.

Gwyn

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Ah .....

So not so much more like zzzzzzz

thanks Gwyn

[Piscator]

I'd hate to think what his insides must have been like with that stuff swilling around inside, particulary if combined with a couple of tot's of navy rum, I should think he'd be ricocheting round the donk shop. Put him in the tube and fire him, the expulsion of gaseous material would propel him faster than a 21" torpedo.

Len

[Dragon]

I imagine the rum would enhance the sedative effects.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........

But I'm not a chemist and I don't know what else was in it.

Gwyn

[Graeme Fisher]

I imagine the rum would enhance the sedative effects.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........

But I'm not  a chemist and I don't know what else was in it.

Gwyn

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'S cos you've got Brain-Fag, woman.....

[DirtyDick]

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Swollen glans? Piles of them, in fact. And fistulas... strange fellows with even stranger websites ...

[historydavid]

The trials and tribulations of a wartime submarine crew and its consequences, is, I believe, well depicted in the film "Das Boot."

This was about a WW2 U-boat, which was much safer than the WW1 boats, particularly the small minelayers.

Best wishes

David