Guest john craven Posted 6 July , 2003 Share Posted 6 July , 2003 Is this soldier on the left the same chap which starts the Great War Programe? He is seen here with pals, but at the start of the programe he is surrounded by fallen. Does anyone know who he is, where he is and the date of the photo. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 6 July , 2003 Share Posted 6 July , 2003 He's been variously identified as a Royal Irish Rilfe Soldier photographed on 1 July 1916 on a road between Auchonvilliers and the front line; a Sheffield Pal named Bailey pictured as a member of a ration party somewhere behind Serre in the days before 1 July. Bailey was KIA on I July and is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial. The Sheffield Pals website claims him as one of their own. This was discussed a few months ago. Paul Reed seemed familiar with the provenance of the picture; he might expand on its history. But one thing is certain. The picture at the start of the BBC GW series is a collage of different pictures. Our soldier's image in that collage is taken from the photo above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 6 July , 2003 Share Posted 6 July , 2003 Yes he is the man. I have seen him referenced as being in the Royal Irish Regiment and the picture to have been taken on the Somme in 1916. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 6 July , 2003 Share Posted 6 July , 2003 Ooops - I see Hedley just got there before me Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest john craven Posted 6 July , 2003 Share Posted 6 July , 2003 Thanks, thats cleared that up, the programe picture shows dead men and one body quite decomposed, I was thinking that it was taken some time after 1 July if it was the Somme. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 6 July , 2003 Share Posted 6 July , 2003 I dont know if it is the original, but this photo is in the Imperial War Museum and does show it as the Royal Irish Rifles... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 I seem to remember a WFA article that strongly supported the Sheffield Pal thesis, and that a relative had identified the man by the signet ring he's wearing....perhaps someone else can recall this article?? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Seymour Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 John, "...the programe picture shows dead men and one body quite decomposed, I was thinking that it was taken some time after 1 July if it was the Somme." The picture you see at the start of the 'Great War' programme is made from various photos that have been superimposed. Alan Seymour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Birch Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 I seem to remember that when the Great War Series was first broadcast in the 1960's that the question of his identity came up, and he was recognised by survivors alive at that time. Maybe an approach to the BBC would reveal this from their archives? If it was taken between Auchonvillers and the front, could it in be the sunken lane which was in nomans land and which runs north beside memorial to the 8th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders and alongside Beaumont Hamel British Cemetery.? However this was the jumping off line for the 1st Lancashire Fusiliers on July 1 and was the front line when the Argylls attacked on 13 November. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 Tim: That part of the battlefield was 29th Division. I think the RIR, if he was such, was part of 4th Division (am I right?) which would put him further north. He may be on the road from Auchonvilliers to Beaumont Hamel either on the way up or returning. His face has a haunted, harrowed look which suggests the latter. We need to know the stated pedigree of the photograph. Does he have any badges or epaulettes that can be made out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edergole Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 Not long ago, within last 4 months, there was an article in the Belfast Telegraph, about how an elderly lady living in north Belfast had recognised the guy third from left (sitting) as being her father. If I remember correctly his name was Maloney (or a derivative of that), apparently RIR and who surivived the war. I wonder whether the telegraph archives would hold a copy? edergole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Seymour Posted 7 July , 2003 Share Posted 7 July , 2003 John, The full size photograph of the one your posted showing a group of approx. 16 soldiers appears is on page 146 of 'Sheffield City Battalion, 12th (Service) Bn, Yorks & Lancaster Regiment - A history of the Battalion Raised by Sheffield in World War One' by Ralph Gibson & Paul Oldfield The caption reads: "Popular picture of soldiers on the Somme front. Seated figure on foreground (soldier in question) has been identified as 12/289 Pte. Joseph Bailey by his daughter. If this is correct then this is a picture of "B" Coy City Battalion, ration party. The photographer claims it was taken on the morning of 1st July, 1916, although this seems unlikely. Joe Bailey was killed in the attack and his body was never identified. Other sources claim the photo is on an Irish Regiment". In my copy of the book which I brought second-hand there's a note attached to the photo with two arrows, one pointing to soldier in question and noting his name as Pte. Joseph Bailey, Sheffield Pals. The other arrow pointing to the soldier 4th on Joseph Bailey's left (last one on the right of your photo) and noting his name as Pte. William George Bull, Royal Irish Rifles, unfortunately there's no information on how this second name was obtained. Alan Seymour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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