Guest mrk82 Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Hello I posted this request a few years ago with no luck so thought I would try again. Below is a photo of Albert William Smith (seated) and his son Will Smith. I have been told that Will's cap badge is that of the Kings Royal Rifle Corps. What I'd really like is some more information about Albert William. I have been told that his medal ribbons are that of the Egypt medal and Khedive's star but so far no one has been able to identify the cap badge. Can anyone help? I'd like to try and find Albert William's service papers but don't know if this will be possible without knowing his regiment? Many thanks Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 marc any chance of zooming in a bit,bernard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrk82 Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 mark ime stumped,does it look like a crown in the middle or a two turreted castle,i originally thought it might be an old suffolk badge,prewar sorry,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Wouldn't say it was a Infantry/Cavalry badge, more like a Corps/Services badge. Definitley looks to be a KC inside an Oval above a Laurel Leaf Spray. I would imagine (But still a guess), that the "Oval" contained the Standard motto of the Garter. "Honi soit qui mal y pense". (Shame be to him who think evil of it). Gut instinct says possibly some connection with Military police, coming possibly from something to do with the chaps apparent age. Maybe Military Prison Staff Corps. But this is still a Stab in the Dark. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 mark,i checked the corps badges but nothing comes close,you might be right about prison staff,its a good post this,trouble is,you have to put all your bloody badge books back on the shelf when youve finished bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 i checked the corps badges but nothing comes close trouble is,you have to put all your bloody badge books back on the shelf when youve finished <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bernard. Same here (checked Corps badges), Like I said just a guess really. Something just told me to go in that direction, it doesn't look like a "Provost" badge, but I'm unsure what the earlier "Prison Staff" badge looks like. And Yep... Books everywhere here too. You're right though, this is a good head scratcher. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Bernard. I'm unsure what the earlier "Prison Staff" badge looks like. Mark. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you reasonably sure that Prison staff had their own badge? My wife`s grandad was a POW camp guard and wore the GS capbadge. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Are you reasonably sure that Prison staff had their own badge? My wife`s grandad was a POW camp guard and wore the GS capbadge. Phil B <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Phil. You're most likely correct. Like I said, I was only "Guessing". Just another thought... Does anybody think the White (Is it even White?) Lanyard is significant? Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy litchfield Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Marc, It's possible that considering Albert's age at 50yrs. plus that he is in one of the volunteer units raised in the Great War and known as the Volunteer Training Corps. Most of the photos I've seen have been of older persons and they certainly wore cap badges unique to their unit. Kipling & King devotes a whole section to the VTC but Albert's cap badge does not appear to be one of those shown. Not all units have their badge illustrated. A lot of the badges were based on the arms of the city or borough where the unit was raised. Hope this helps a little. Best wishes Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Is there a possibility that this is an early Military Police Badge? I haven't seen it before, so I am not sure. Just a thought! Regards PAUL J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Marc, It's possible that considering Albert's age at 50yrs. plus that he is in one of the volunteer units raised in the Great War and known as the Volunteer Training Corps. Most of the photos I've seen have been of older persons and they certainly wore cap badges unique to their unit. Kipling & King devotes a whole section to the VTC but Albert's cap badge does not appear to be one of those shown. Not all units have their badge illustrated. A lot of the badges were based on the arms of the city or borough where the unit was raised. Hope this helps a little. Best wishes Roy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> roy's post makes sense to me, i've seen a few VTC badges where did he live? that should narrow it down ( maybe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Godden Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Did VTC units tend to wear Khaki? I had always thought it was a cheaper material that was used to make the uniforms - something akin to Kitchener Blues. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrk82 Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Thanks to everyone for the suggestions but unfortunately still nothing definite. Albert William was living in London at the time, Holloway, Islington I think. I don't think Albert was in the army between serving in Egypt and The Great War. At least according to the 1891 and 1901 census' he was not. Will he have two separate sets of army records? One for his service in Egypt in WO 97 and another in WO 363 or 364 for his service during the Great War? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrk82 Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 I have zoomed in on Albert's left shoulder area so that the lanyard can be seen more clearly. I also noticed that he has what appear to be another set of chevrons on his left arm in a similar place to those on his right arm signifying his rank. Is this normal or does if signify something else. I have also tried to zoom in on the buttons to see if this helps. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 I also noticed that he has what appear to be another set of chevrons on his left arm in a similar place to those on his right arm signifying his rank. Is this normal or does if signify something else.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quite normal Marc. Rank is Lance Corporal. (Or equivalent, depending on which unit we finally decide he's part of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 The buttons won't help as they are General Service - the Royal Arms as worn by everyone. I would posit that the medal ribbons are those of the Egypt Medal 1882-89, and the associated Khedive's Star. This is the Egypt Medal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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