Who were allies in WW1 and not in WW2

[larneman]

I keep getting confused who supported who. A lot countries seems to have different aims in WW1 than WW2. Is there a referance anywhere.

Or can one of the lads list who sided with who.

Liam

[DirtyDick]

Italy - fought alongside France and Britain etc. in WW1 (from 1915; betrayed her Triple Alliance partners of A-H and Germany in doing so).

WW2 - sided with Germany (only when French defeat iminent); not very popular decision; defeated in N and E Africa by the British and changed sides (at the least the recognised government did) in 1943 to fight against German troops remaining in Italy.

Portugal - with allies in WW1; remained neutral in WW2.

Ireland - part of UK in WW1 so at war; in WW2 remained neutral. (Similarly with Turkey.)

Romania - with allies in WW1; sided with Germany in WW2 (pressured into it).

These off the top of my head; no doubt more.

Richard

[swizz]

I think I'm right in saying that Japan was an ally in WW1?

Swizz

[andigger]

Guatemala on the allied side in both wars...

http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/declarationsofwar.htm

http://worldatwar.net/timeline/other/diplomacy39-45.html

Andy

[DirtyDick]

How could I forget the Japanese!

Strangely enough, the German POWs held by Japan in WW1 were treated correctly, according to international protocol; it was only in WW2 that they acted as barbarous brutes to their European POWs (as well as Chinese, Koreans, other Japanese...)

Richard

[Desmond7]

Not to put too fine a point on it BUT .... Ireland was NOT neutral in WW2.

Northern Ireland was very much involved as part of the UK; Eire was neutral .. but many of its citizens were most definitely not!

[Patrick]

What about Finland in the ww1 ?

@+

Patrick

[DirtyDick]

Very true Desmondo, I tend to use Ireland and Northern Ireland as shorthand for the respective parts (since Eire appears to have fallen from common usage) ... mind you, I did forget about Nippon... and that was after reading all those Commando comics.

Banzai!

Richard

[Desmond7]

Honourable Ricardo San .... you are forgiven.

Domo arigato

[Steven Broomfield]

Didn't Turkey finally come in on the Allied side very near the end of WW2? And Brazil were definitely in (on our side) in WW2, too.

Bulgaria?

Madame Cholay??

[Chris Boonzaier]

What about Finland in the ww1 ?

@+

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Finnish volunteers formed the 27th Prussian Jäger batallion, commanded by major Max Bayer and fought the Russians until the end f the war. Most of the future leaders of the Finnish army came from this unit.

[chrisharley9]

Finnish volunteers formed the 27th Prussian Jäger batallion, commanded by major Max Bayer and fought the Russians until the end f the war. Most of the future leaders of the Finnish army came from this unit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correctly speaking Finland was part of the Russian Empire until 1918

All The Best

Chris

[bernardmcilwaine]

Correctly speaking Finland was part of the Russian Empire until 1918

All The Best

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hungary and bulgaria fought against us in both wars,also austria,the italians wait to see whos winning before they join in,it was touch and go with em in ww1,till we bribed them with a bit more empire,bernard

[Patrick]

evening ,

Thanks Chris and Chrisharley9, for info on finland .

Did not know that, missed 2 finnish books on ebay

on the finnish wwi effort recently ,

thats why i wondered .

Thxs

@+

Patrick

[apple]

evening ,

Thanks Chris and Chrisharley9, for info on finland .

Did not know that, missed 2 finnish books on ebay

on the finnish wwi effort recently ,

thats why i wondered .

Thxs

@+

Patrick

Both the Chris' s are correct and there' s no reason to be concerned about not getting those books about Finland' s WW1 efforts, Patrick. Both books would have been very short and would have said: Finland wasn' t in WW1. Unless they were about the Finnish Civil War and the Finnish Legion in Murmansk (previously mentioned on this thread... Interesting guy that Oskari Tokoi), which is only vaguely WW1. Finland' s army was disbanded in the 1800' s and, basically, was only recreated in 1918

Antony

[centurion]

Didn't Turkey finally come in on the Allied side very near the end of WW2? And Brazil were definitely in (on our side) in WW2, too.

Bulgaria?

Madame Cholay??

Turkey declared war on Germany one week before VE day (in order to qualify for UN membership). Spain tried to declare war (for the same reason) but left it so late that her ambassador scuttling around Berlin dodging Soviet tanks etc couldn't find any one to deliver the declaration to. Bulgaria was at war with Britain but not the Soviet Union. As Russian tanks neared Bulgaria they reminded the Soviets of this "thats OK" they said "we'll declare war on you"

Thailand was, reluctantly, on Japan's side in WW2.

[phil@basildon]

Finland became a British ally in September 1939 but was forced to change sides when Hitler invaded Russia. The Hitler/Stalin non-aggression pact gave Stalin a free hand in the Baltic states and the same pact made the Soviet union if not an ally of Germany a 'friendly nation'. Great Britain supplied the Finns with aircraft and weapons to defend themselves during the so called 'Winter War'. Upon Hitlers attack on Russia the Russians became allied to Britain and it became a case of 'Your enemy is our enemy' and the British declared war on Finland, the only instance of this country declaring war on another democracy. Fortunately no British or Finnish soldiers faced each other on the battlefield.

Finland survived the war relatively intact, some territory was ceded to Russia. Unlike the other three Baltic states that were taken into the Soviet Union.

[centurion]

Phil - I fear some errors

Finland did not become a British ally. Britain was seriously contemplating intervening in the Winter War - the Soviet Union was at that time perceived as essentially supporting or at least complicit with Germany's aims - but there was no formal alliance. Finland was not forced into the Continuation War by the German invasion of the Soviet Union but took the opportunity to attempt to regain its lost territory from the Winter War. The Finns usually say that they weren't in WW2 and the Continuation War was a parallel but separate conflict - the Soviets did not accept this analysis and neither did Britain.

The Baltic states were annexed by the Soviet Union before the USSR was in WW2 as were parts of Roumania

[MartH]

Both the Chris' s are correct and there' s no reason to be concerned about not getting those books about Finland' s WW1 efforts, Patrick. Both books would have been very short and would have said: Finland wasn' t in WW1. Unless they were about the Finnish Civil War and the Finnish Legion in Murmansk (previously mentioned on this thread... Interesting guy that Oskari Tokoi), which is only vaguely WW1. Finland' s army was disbanded in the 1800' s and, basically, was only recreated in 1918

Antony

Actually Finland was in the Great War, technically for most of the war as part of the Russian Empire, though all Russian War plans written before the war assumed that the Finns would do everything to get their Independence, which they did. One example is that the Finnish Jaeger Battalion, which return early 1918 to Finland.

There where Russian warships operating out of Finnish harbours, as well as Royal Navy Submarines, which where very successful.

The Russians stationed over 80 thousand troops in Finland to stop the Finns revolting and to repel the dreaded assault on St Peterburg through Finland. The advance from Riga, Operation Albion and the German Operations in Finland in 1918 where what finally forced Russia out of the war. There where operations as already stated in Murmansk and Archangel, the Germans in July/August 1918 were boarding another Special Assault Force to fight in and occupy St Petersburg, due to the large Allied presence in the north, they had to disembark the troops after the start of the Allied Offensive in the West. After the Armistice there was Cowan's Fleet in the Baltic, the sinking of the Oleg, the attack on Kronstadt and the demise of the Red Fleet.

I have many books books on the subject.

There was a Finnish Army during the Russian Period till the early 1900's, when the army was run down over a period of a few years, the Officer training school at Hamina was closed in 1903. The Russians tried to introduce conscription in Finland but nobody turned up and the Finnish Senate paid a tax instead.

As for the Winter War most of the supplies sent by Britain arrived after the end of the War and much was captured by the Germans when they invaded Norway.

Also Britain and Finns did face each other on the Battlefield, there was a Swordfish attack on Petsamo July 1941, and IIRC a Finnish Army unit attack the Canadians in 1919. There where also a couple of Finnish Naval Officers attached to the E Boats in the Channel, and the RAF Wings in Murmansk 1941 faced the Finnish Airforce.

Fortunately for Finland the US never declared war on them, they did have an Allied Occupation Commission after the Second World War, and lost 12% of their territory.

[centurion]

Mexico was neutral in WW1 and Mexican pilots fought in the Pacific in WWII.

[roughdiamond]

Serbia who started it all off in WW1 were quickly neutralised as part of Yugoslavia by invading Axis powers in WW2 as was Greece who joined the "Entente" powers in 1917.

[jhill]

The United States of America was not technically an "Ally" in the Great War. In fact, the Wilson government went to considerable lengths to deny this suggestion. During the period of hostilities and throughout the Peace Conference the U.S. insisted on using the complicated phrase "Allied and Associated Powers" to denote the Allies and the U.S.

This followed Wilson's view that the "Allies" being, as it were, the old-world autocracies, were bound by various secret treaties which were opposed to U.S. policy. The U.S. government and military were permitted to cooperate with other powers for the effective prosecution of the War, but the policy was to be that the U.S. was fighting independently. An illustration of this would be the early negociations with Germany following the latter's request to Wilson for an armistice in October 1918. These were conducted with essentially no reference to the "Allies".

Of course, for everyone outside the United States this distinction was lost.

I apologize for being pedantic.

[auchonvillerssomme]

In Blyton Church in Lincolnshire theres a unique War Memorial.

The ceiling is hung with flags and it began during WW1 with a mother who’s son died in France; she wanted a French flag for the church. Then the mother of a son who fell in Belgium wished for a Belgian flag. So the vicar the Rev’d E ‘Ponto’ Letts set himself the task of collecting the flags.

King Albert sent the Belgium flag.

The French President sent the Tricolour.

Admiral beatty sent an ensign flown at Jutland

The viceroy of India, the Governors of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa all sent Empire flags.

The Kings of Italy, Serbia responded as did the Emperor of Japan.

The USA flag was sent by President Wilson.

The Portugese flag was sent with special attention from the President of the Republic.

During WW2 the Japanese and Italian flags were moved discretly to the back of the church, but kept insitu.

Mick

[centurion]

Serbia who started it all off in WW1 were quickly neutralised as part of Yugoslavia by invading Axis powers in WW2

Tell that to the partisans who kept in the field until the end of the war and fought pitched battles against considerable German and Italian forces

[truthergw]

The United States of America was not technically an "Ally" in the Great War. In fact, the Wilson government went to considerable lengths to deny this suggestion. During the period of hostilities and throughout the Peace Conference the U.S. insisted on using the complicated phrase "Allied and Associated Powers" to denote the Allies and the U.S.

This followed Wilson's view that the "Allies" being, as it were, the old-world autocracies, were bound by various secret treaties which were opposed to U.S. policy. The U.S. government and military were permitted to cooperate with other powers for the effective prosecution of the War, but the policy was to be that the U.S. was fighting independently. An illustration of this would be the early negociations with Germany following the latter's request to Wilson for an armistice in October 1918. These were conducted with essentially no reference to the "Allies".

Of course, for everyone outside the United States this distinction was lost.

I apologize for being pedantic.

I think this is relevant when we discuss how closely US troops combined with the Entente and Pershing's perceived reluctance to allow his troops to be dispersed among the French and British forces. There were political forces at work here which we should not ignore.