Purchase of Thiepval Wood

[Mark A]

Interesting article in the Telegraph today that the British Government have given the Somme Association £400,000 to help purchase Thiepval wood. The article is on line at www.telegraph.co.uk - put a keyword search in for "somme".

[Hedley Malloch]

There is a piece on the sale of Thiepval Wood in the current issue of Battlefield Review.

[Mike Steele]

At the Ulster Tower service yesterday, the minister for Northern Ireland (whatever his name is !!) spoke about the desire being to keep the Ulster Tower site and 'adjoining woods' in perpetuity. I guess this must have been a nod towards this grant you mentioned.

[ianw]

I am delighted at this news and it seems like a done deal now.

At the same time, I question whether Governmental attitudes to "disadvantaged" regions, desire to move along the peace process etc persuaded someone to find this money. Perhaps the Government should put up the final £90,000 or so to enable the Thiepval Centre to move on full speed in honour of all who fell on the Somme from wherever.

Nice for the new Ulster Secretary (who he ?) to be able to produce some good news for those present at the Ulster Tower

[Billy Bittles]

Taken from the Belfast Telegraph July 1 2003 : please forgive any spelling mistakes, I had to type quickly

Somme wood bought in tribute to war dead

Murphy gives £400.000 to preserve site

A French woodland where thousands of Ulster soldiers were killked during the First World War is to be saved from possible destruction, it was revealed today.

The secretary of state, Paul Murphy, announced that the government is to hand over £400,000 to ensure that Thiepval wood, where more than 5,000 members of the 36th (Ulster) Division died during the first two days of the Battle of the Somme in JUly 1916, is preserved as a permanent memorial site.

Mr Murphy revealed details of the financial package during a commemoration service in Thiepval in northern France to mark the 87th anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme.

Relatives of many of the soldiers from Northern Ireland who died during the battle also attended the service.

There had been fears among local people and war veterns that Thiepval Wood could have been cut down and redeveloped.

The French Government only scrapped plans last year to build an airport in an area where many of the soldiers were killed during the Battle of the Somme are buried after a major campagin against the proposal.

Mr Murphy today said Thiepval Wood, which has remained largely untouched since 1916 was of great importance to the people of the province and added that he was delighted the Government was able to help preserve the site.

"It is fitting that today, on the 87th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme, the future of Thiepval Wood has been secured", he said.

The £400,000 will be donated to the Ulster-based Somme Association which was set up in 1999 to co-ordinate research into Ireland's role in the First World War and to ensure that soldiers killed during the war would be remembered.

The group opened the Somme Heritage Centre, which deals mainly with the events of the Battle of the Somme, in Co. Down in 1994.

Mr Murphy praised the work carried out by the Association and said it was important to preserve the site where so many Ulstermen lost their lives.

"Through the work of the Somme Association, present and future generations will never forget the sacrifice made by young men from cities, towns and villages across Ireland during World War One.

"The people of Northern Ireland have strong emotional attachment to the Somme and it was important when Thiepval Wood came on the market that the new owners would respect it historical legacy.

"I am delighted that the Government has been able to offer the Somme Association a grant to purchace Thiepval Wood.

"The Association's aim is to keep the wood as a memorial to the memories of the fallen. In the future, I know the Association plans to open part of the wood to the public, which will add to the experience of people visiting the Somme"

[Hedley Malloch]

Ian has a good point. I have absolutely no objection to HMG finding money for Thiepval Wood, but it does raise the question of who decides what are the Western Front preservation priorities? Why can this money be found for (in this case) Thiepval Wood, but not for, say, Red Dragon Crater, Bellewarde, the trenches at Boesinge, Malin's hide or any other of the major sites that have gone west in recent years? Who determines the priorities? Somebody (the WFA?) should be advising on priorities?

[Mike Steele]

May I be so bold as to suggest a little politics coming into play here ?? News like this will be hugely popular among the loyalist movement in Ulster, and if a worthwhile gesture like this helps to oil the wheels of the peace process a little, then why not ??

Sometimes things which seem of equal importance to the enthusiast have radically different symbolic meaning to the rest of society.

[Billy Bittles]

I dont really think that politics has anything to do with this particular gesture Mike.

Living in Ulster I have first hand experience of what the 36th (Ulster) Division and in particular the Battle of the Somme, means to the people who live here, both Protestant and Catholic.

I know that they did not mean anymore than any of the other brave men from other Divisions and Battalions who fought and died from around the world, but as someone recently said to me in an email received through my website, talking about the awful reality of that tragic and bloody summer of 1916 on the fields of the Somme and the devastating impact it had on a tight-knit community that has since become a core theme in the Ulster Protestant tradition and mythology, he said thatother people talk about Pals Battalions, we talk about a Pals Division. A tight-knit country was destroyed on the Somme and it does play a huge part in Ulsters Hertiage and culture as you would see by speaking to anyone from here or visiting the Somme Heriage Centre or even looking at the dozens of murals painted on the end of gable walls in memory to the Ulster Division.

Hedley, those other places that you speak off are not as yet in danger like Thiepval Wood was. It was going to be ploughed down, it was not just a case of preserving it, it was a case of saving it. Im sure that if any other site was in danger that the Government would step in and provide money to help buy the site as they did with Thiepval.

[paul guthrie]

This is great news and if it helps the peace process, all the better. I have been warned many times about entering French woods and look forward to entering this one. My goodness, High Wood is tempting!

[ianw]

I take on board Billy's points about the importance of this wood to Ulster and look forward to visiting it but I agree with points made about the conspicuous past failure of the Government in acting to save other important Great War features. So I do think that there is a political dimension to the good news about this wood.

Thiepval with the wood open to some sort of access and the visitor centre in addition to the Tower and the memorial will become a real key focus of attention on the Somme.

[Hedley Malloch]

Billy: the places of which I wrote have all gone, more's the pity.

I don't have a problem in saving Thiepval Wood; it's a good idea. Thiepval has associations with many units apart from the 36th Division and dates other than 1 July 1916. But who says it is a better idea than purchasing some other site of memory?

Those of who are now applauding the purchase on the grounds that it has, for them, a positive political agenda, cannot really argue that remembrance and sites of memory are somehow 'non-political'. And perhaps they will be a little more tolerant of the activities of others at sites of memory which they have, in the past, dismissed and sought to have stopped on the grounds that they are 'political'.

Point?

[Billy Bittles]

Well hopefully those that see this as as "political win", will, as you say Hedley, be a little more tolerant of the activities of others at sites of memory which they have, in the past, dismissed and sought to have stopped on the grounds that they are 'political'.

This could be the start of something very good as now, if as you say, it is because of something political, then the Government will be forced to give out more money to other sites to make it look like it is not a political gesture.

[could I have got many more political's in there?! ]

[Mark A]

Hedley- has Malin's hide gone? The one roughly diagonally across from the Hawthorne Ridge Crater and from where he filmed the mine?

I was there a few years ago but haven't been back since. If so, as you say, very sad. A place not only of military history but of the history of film as well.

Mark

[paul guthrie]

It was destroyed last year by the farmer I think installing water pipe, not his fault, should have been protected, maybe the most famous image of the war taken from there.

[Paul Reed]

This is good news indeed, as the sale of the wood to another party would have seen the whole area re-forested, which would have meant total destruction at ground zero, with the loss of all the trenches - as has happened in the forests at Verdun.

The custodians of the Ulster Tower told me today that little will change immediately; the trenches close to the cemetery may be made open, but most of the wood will continue to be estate managed and used for shooting as it has been before - so don't expect carte blanche to wander round it at will.

A positive and encouraging development.

[ianw]

Obviously woods have to be managed to keep them in order but I wonder if the revenue raised by hunting could be replaced by revenue from Great War visitors to the wood. I would certainly be prepared to pay an entry fee for access to more of the wood for quiet contemplation and enjoyment. I am sure that this approach would also meet with the approval of the resident pidgeons, rabbits, hare etc !

[Alan Lines]

Great news. Look forward to seeing the Government shell out similar amounts when somewhere like Trones Wood is threatened.

[Hedley Malloch]

Great news. Look forward to seeing the Government shell out similar amounts when somewhere like Trones Wood is threatened.

Alan, I wouldn't get your hopes up too high. This looks to me like a one-off geared to the specific political needs of the Ulster problem and unsupported by any policy of battlefield preservation.

[ianw]

Hedley,

I suspect that Alan's posting may have been tongue in cheek.

I agree with your analysis and reckon that Gordon Brown would resent putting up £10 to save the Menin Gate from immediate demolition ! - let alone hundreds of thousands of pounds for some lump of rural french greenery .