Today's harvest with the diggers in Boezinghe

[frans]

Forgive my obvious ignorance Frans, so, is this a booby trap type affair then( in a box under the duckboards)  or are they landmines or am I misreading your post?

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Hi Spike, they were installed that if at any time the opposing army got into their trench they had a way of getting them out again with the least amount of losses.

Frans

[spike10764]

Hi Spike, they were installed that if at any time the opposing army got into their trench they had a way of getting them out again with the least amount of losses.

Frans

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Ahhhh

[frans]

After about ten weeks of preparation work the 1915 trench is finally openend up today. You can clearly see it runs from the bottom of the photo and turns right at the top. From the left of the photo to the right runs a trench which connects. Where the person is stood on the left there was a major impact.

[frans]

The trench is 95 cm wide and just 70 cm deep. When stood in the trench you can clearly immagine that it gave no great protection with the Germans only 40-50 meters from here.

[frans]

Some of todays finds.

The top photo a small trenchshovel.

Bottom photo a penknife.

[frans]

The top photo a small arms bullet and a pencil.

The bottom photo you can see that the pencil has been put on top of a cartridge.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi all

Jacky meantioned in the chat room tonight that German stuff was found in this 1915 British Trench and that it was close to German trenches. Just wondering if this trench is F35 or more likely F34 which was not more then 20 yards from strongly held German trench.

F35 was lost by the 20th Division during the night of 11th/12th Feb. 1916 as it was relieving units of the 14th Div., the trench was regained but the Germans mortared it and F35 had been practically obliterated, so a position a little further back was taken up.

F34 & F33 were lost on the 19th Feb., Div. C.O. decided that owing to the exposed position of these trenches that no counter-attack sould be made, also the garrison of F30, which was isolated, were ordered to withdaw also from this trench. I think these trenches were left after that by both sides ?

Annette

[frans]

Hi all

Jacky meantioned in the chat room tonight that German stuff was found in this 1915 British Trench and that it was close to German trenches. Just wondering if this trench is F35 or more likely F34 which was not more then 20 yards from strongly held German trench.

F35 was lost by the 20th Division during the night of 11th/12th Feb. 1916 as it was relieving units of the 14th Div., the trench was regained but the Germans mortared it and F35 had been practically obliterated, so a position a little further back was taken up.

F34 & F33 were lost on the 19th Feb., Div. C.O. decided that owing to the exposed position of these trenches that no counter-attack sould be made, also the garrison of F30, which was isolated, were ordered to withdaw also from this trench. I think these trenches were left after that by both sides ?

Annette

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Hello Annette,

Jacky was very correct, we found German handgrenades and small arms munitions in the 1915 trench. There are obvious signs such as german cartridges which indicates that the Germans must have been in the trench. The trench system we are looking at are the earliest when they fell back after the gass attack late April of 15. I understand that the English remained in these trenches for the next three month's. The opposing trenches are about 40 meters apart where we are working.

On the photo to give you some idea where we roughly are you see the blue car just to the right of there is farm 14, this area was only cleared las week. The electricity poles coming towards us is roughly the German line. From farm 14 going left is the German line going towards the canal.

The trenches of 1916 were about 60-80 meters further south of where we are now.

Regards Frans

[Garron]

Hi, i am new and just found an interest in world war 1,

those pics are amazing, and its really interesting to see what the items the trenches still contain some nearly 90 years on,

[Aurel Sercu]

F35 was lost by the 20th Division during the night of 11th/12th Feb. 1916 as it was relieving units of the 14th Div., the trench was regained but the Germans mortared it and F35 had been practically obliterated, so a position a little further back was taken up.

F34 & F33 were lost on the 19th Feb., Div. C.O. decided that owing to the exposed position of these trenches that no counter-attack sould be made, also the garrison of F30, which was isolated, were ordered to withdaw also from this trench. I think these trenches were left after that by both sides ?

Annette

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Annette,

You're right. On 19 Feb 1916 the trench near F 34 indeed was captured by the Germans. And east of it F 33 - F 30 had to be evacuated.

And you're right when you think that these trenches were left after that.

A new British line had to be established on the next day, approx. 100 yds behind the evacuated line. Shortly after that (it may have been the following day, but I'm not sure) it was withdrawn even more (because the area was so shell-pitted), about 250 yds from the evacuated posts, and wired.

Below part of a map of 29 Feb 1916 (83rd Field Co. R.E.).

Sorry, but F 35 was not on it. The arrow near the borrom shows where Yorkshire Trench and Dug-Out would come.

Aurel

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Aurel

I was just going to post the same map, which I down loaded from one of your threads a few moons ago.

Annette

[frans]

I went to the dig site this afternoon and you can see clearly how the situation has changed just in one day. The water can't go down because of the blue clay. The surrounding area is like a skating ring. For me it is ok I can go home again, for the soldier a pritty desperate situation.

In the small gap in the trees roughly in the center of the photo is the locks at boezinge. If you look at the map a couple of postings before this, we are at the part where the canals widens so that the boats could tie up before the lock and starts to turn left which is not on the map.

[frans]

The area we are working at the moment is between the silver car and the sign about 10 yards away to the right. If you look closely you can see the pile of the removed soil.

[Max Poilu]

Frans,

Superb thread, just catching up with it. If you are the same 'Frans' as in another forum then I posted some info on the sniper helmet there.

Regarding the corrugated iron in the dugouts I do not think it has rusted away in one shelter and not the other. This iron sheeting was used as shuttering to create the shape of the dugout while the concrete was poured in. In some cases it was left in place in others it was removed. It did not really have any purpose thereafter.

The explosive block certainly looks like a standard block of German blasting TNT. A picture of a similar 'cake' of Great War British explosive (16 oz Guncotton in this case) is below. I was once offered one of these blocks by a dealer friend - unfortunately for obvious reasons I had to decline... The central hole is to accept a detonator.

Great photos, keep going!

[frans]

Frans,

Superb thread, just catching up with it.  If you are the same 'Frans' as in another forum then I posted some info on the sniper helmet there.

Regarding the corrugated iron in the dugouts I do not think it has rusted away in one shelter and not the other.  This iron sheeting was used as shuttering to create the shape of the dugout while the concrete was poured in.  In some cases it was left in place in others it was removed.  It did not really have any purpose thereafter.

The explosive block certainly looks like a standard block of German blasting TNT.  A picture of a similar 'cake' of Great War British explosive (16 oz Guncotton in this case) is below.  I was once offered one of these blocks by a dealer friend - unfortunately for obvious reasons I had to decline...  The central hole is to accept a detonator.

Great photos, keep going!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Giles, yes it is one and the same and thanks for your help.

Regards Frans.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Frans

I did not know you were that close to canal, I was thinking F34 or 33 but now I think its possibly F35. I have been looking for a map with F35 marked on it with out luck, there is a map in Peter Chasseaud map book dated 26-8-15 which as British trenches marked on it but its not clear around the area you are digging .

The water can't go down because of the blue clay. The surrounding area is like a skating ring. For me it is ok I can go home again, for the soldier a pritty desperate situation.

and it july now so what was it like in the winter months.

Annette

[frans]

Hi Frans

I did not know you were that close to canal, I was thinking F34 or 33  but now I think its possibly F35. I have been looking for a map with F35 marked on it with out luck, there is a map in Peter Chasseaud map book dated 26-8-15 which as British trenches marked on it but its not clear around the area you are digging .

and it july now so what was it like in the winter months.

Annette

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Hi Annette, I have found a photo in a book which gives a wonderfull idea exactly where we are. I am trying to get permission to use the photo. As soon as i have this I will post it. What I can show is where the trench at one time met the canal.

There is a photo of this point in the book. It says that the Germans were on the left and the English on the right of the side canal. They were no more than 20 meters apart. The lock is 40 meters to your right. The photo which is posted is one I took today.

Regard Frans.

[frans]

Back to last saturday.

The ground around this photo was distorted by some major impact.

[frans]

Patrick decided to dig under the duckboard and what is on the photo was found.

The barbed wire is one block of iron but the spade was pushed into the clay and was really well preserved. What you see was pushed three feet down by the explosion.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Frans

I have been reading in more detail about the German attack on F35.

The 12th R.B. along with a bombing Section of 12/K.R.R.C. recaptured the trench but the Germans started to shell the trench very heaverly. Gradually blewing it in, necessitating in successive withdrawals. Several blocks were build, these were used as one section after another became untenable. Finaly the trench was obliterated and position further back was taken up.

Are there signs of these blocks in the trench you are now working ? also are there signs of it being very badly knocked about (from what you have already said points to lots of damage). Plus have you found any signs of Rifle Brigade itams ? if this trench is F35 (I am only making am educated guess that its F35) then the last troops to use it were the 12th R.B. and seeing that they had a rough time of it they would not have had time to take all thire belongings.

Annette

[frans]

Hi Annette,

The only item found up to now which you can relate to any unit is a T4 badge.

The Diggers have only sinds last week unearthed part of the trench, hopefully over the coming weeks more will be uncovered. There is something there which is puzling. They are metal rings 6 feet in diameter which are found on a couple of places on the trench line. The intention is wheather permitting to uncover one of these positions. Up to now we have no evidence of any of the blocks you write about.

You are right in stating that often just manholes were dug.

What is very clear that very heavy fighting occurred here and we do have some evidence that sometimes they must have left in a hurry. I think that this is the same for both sides.

I will post a few photo's of the items we found last week but because of the shallow position of the finds, most are in a bad condition.

[Aurel Sercu]

Annette,

1. I think that position or trench F 35 can no longer be found. According to my information it was very close to the canal, maybe only a few meters. Now, the right (east) bank of the canal is 3 meters or more from the water, and then there is a post war road (Oostkaai) of maybe 5 meters wide, and then a shoulder. So F 35 now must be covered by the road.

2. On 18 March 2000 one or two RB badges were found approx. 20 or 30 meters south of F 34. But 1/RB was in action there on 5-7 July 1915.

Aurel

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Aurel

According to my information it was very close to the canal, maybe only a few meters.

I am not so sure of this ? because the Division's History records that after the 12/R.B. were shelled out of F35, that they took up positions a little furthur back, so if it was that close to canal could they do this ?

Annette

[Aurel Sercu]

Annette,

... new positions "a little further back".

Question : what is "back" ? South or west ?

You seem to believe it means "west". I'm not sure this is correct. I think it is south. For in that northern part of the battlefield, the British frontline (F35 to eastward F31, see the extract of the map I posted, number 185) was facing north. So for me "further back" means : southward.

Aurel

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Aurel

Yes I was thinking west but if F35 was a close to the canal as you say, then I can see that they could only go south. So if its not F35, then the trench the diggers are working on must have been lost before 11th Feb. 1916. Do you think in was lost in the fighting of 5-7 July 1915 or at a later date ?

Annette