Aurel Sercu Posted 6 July , 2005 Share Posted 6 July , 2005 Annette, Yes, I think it was in the 5-7 July 1915 fighting, for I'm sure that British troops reached these northernmost positions there, even if only for a while, close to the German line (neue Sappe). However, it is also possible that the trench is from Feb 1916 as well. Hard to say. (I do not know the exact position, unless from the photos, as I have not been there recently.) It must be a little west from F34. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 6 July , 2005 Share Posted 6 July , 2005 Hi Here is the map dated 26-8-15, hope I am not breaking any copyright by posting it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 6 July , 2005 Share Posted 6 July , 2005 Annette, Not exactly a trench map, but based on one. (Summer 1915) Showing how close F 35 was to the canal. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 7 July , 2005 Share Posted 7 July , 2005 Thanks for the pictures Frans- keep it up. Annette and Aurel- keep up your debate- great craic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 8 July , 2005 Share Posted 8 July , 2005 Hello Glyn, It is up to the Forum where they would like to put this material. I put it here because I was convinced that many people would be interested in what is done regarding excavations. They are given the opportunity to make a copy of the pictures and I don't feel to guilty of using to much space on the forum because in due time they can clean up this space. If the members would like it, I can keep the forum updated with the excavations that are going on, and put more detail with the pictures. There are foto's available of finds over the last year which have not been published. If people would like to see the bigger finds I wil be pleased to post them. One these finds was of course the german snipers helmet where still there is hardly any info on, next week I receive pictures of a flying pig they unearthed. The picture below was taken about 200 yards away where a british heavy artillery batterie had stood. As you can see in some of the pictures the land is being prepared for development of the industrial estate. regards frans <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the great pictures frans. I've seen a lot of pictures of the shell the guys in the photo are carrying - does anybody know what it is ? 6 inch ? Or did various shells look very similar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 8 July , 2005 Share Posted 8 July , 2005 Rob, there was only one heavy artillery shell. I will find out what size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 8 July , 2005 Share Posted 8 July , 2005 Just been informed by one the men who picked up the artillery shell that the size was an 8 inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 8 July , 2005 Share Posted 8 July , 2005 Both photo's show the effect of an explosion. The difference being that the top photo the cartridge was out of the blue clay and the bottom photo they were closer to the surface. All these items were found last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 These look more like cartridges that were exposed to fire. We found a few like this in the Bayern Graben near Serre. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 These look more like cartridges that were exposed to fire. We found a few like this in the Bayern Graben near Serre. Ralph <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The blue colour is from the ground Ralph, if you put these into a fire I would not like to be standing to close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 9 July , 2005 Share Posted 9 July , 2005 Jacky sharing his wisdom on how to dig with two spades at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Here is a map dated 1-4-17, the German line matches the one on Aurel map except that the German line continues right up to the canal. I have added British trenches from the map that I posted dated 26-8-15 (the red dots), this can only be an approx. I have not mark British trenches all the way to canal for two reasons one -it would blot out the German trench running to the canal and two- the trench (s) on the 1915 map are smugged in this area so I can not make them. The blue ring is where I thought the diggers where digging but Frans, who I email map to already, says their work starts from somwhere about the most northenly red dot. If the date of my 1915 map is correct ie 26-8-15 and Aurel's map is also dated right ie summer 1915, then that can only mean that these British trenches were captured some time shorty after after 26-8-15 ? Any thoughts on this bearing in mind that I am only making educated guess. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Bye the way the yellow marking are pointing out F33 and F31, should have used different colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Annette, Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't help you. This is getting beyond my capacities. I have several maps of the area, similar to yours in posting # 203 (26-08-15), but one is from 21-07-15 (one month earlier), and another is from 10-09-15. And unfortunately... they do not show the British trenches. (Contrary to yours # 203. Are the British positions on your map printed or handwritten ?) I have one of Jan. 1916, and the British line (only marked with an elementary dashed line) is approx. 150 - 250 m more south than the red dotted line on your map in the preceding posting of today. Please do not forget that the area in the southeast corner of the Railway and Canal is a very (very !) low lying area. Trenches there cannot possibly have been very solid and lasting. Even in summer I think. And regimental histories and war diaries keep on stressing that in winter it was a swamp, no trenches, only isolated posts. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 The top photo where Andre is standing is where we finished last week and are now moving in a north westerly direction. The bottom photo is the find of a well. It is around 6 feet deep. The base was covered with felt paper. It is not clear if this was for drainage or drinking water. The well is directly next to a trench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 Hi Aurel I too agree that its is a confusing area of trenches which must have changed hands more then once. Please do not forget that the area in the southeast corner of the Railway and Canal is a very (very !) low lying area. Trenches there cannot possibly have been very solid and lasting. Even in summer I think. And regimental histories and war diaries keep on stressing that in winter it was a swamp, no trenches, only isolated posts. Frans posts earlier say the diggers trench is not very deep. The 20th Div. History says the area was a quagmire and it was impossible to construct continuous front line (the maps tend to show continuous line). The History records many "grouse butts" in the front line, which were mere islands made of two or three sheets of corrugated iron. Are the British positions on your map printed or handwritten ? They look like they are handwritten, so never 100% actuate. I have one of Jan. 1916, and the British line (only marked with an elementary dashed line) is approx. 150 - 250 m more south than the red dotted line on your map in the preceding posting of today.. That makes sence after red dotted line (trenches dated 26-8-15) was captured Brits fall to a line 150 - 250 m more south, are these F35 and F34 ? I am going to have a bit of a dig around some of the Regimental Histories that I have to see if I can find who was holding this area in the latter part of 1915, may get luckly. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 These circles were unearthed last saturday. The diameter is 3 feet but over the years they have been found up to a diameter of 6 feet. They have only been found in English positions near the canal at Boezinge and we have no clue at all for what purpose they served. Any suggestions will be very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 1. That makes sence after red dotted line (trenches dated 26-8-15) was captured Brits fall to a line 150 - 250 m more south, are these F35 and F34 ? 2. I am going to have a bit of a dig around some of the Regimental Histories that I have to see if I can find who was holding this area in the latter part of 1915, may get luckly. Annette <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Annette, 1. The dotted line of the British line on the Jan 1916 map still has positions F31 and F32, but is approx. 200 south of where F33 and F34 were. Strangely enough it is still the same line on maps 2 March 1916, and 5 May 1916, at a moment it should already have been withdrawn 200 or so meters since Feb 1916. The withdrawn position does not become visible on the map on the one I have of 9 Sep 1916. 2. It was the 49th (West Riding Division) that was holding the line from approx. 10 July 1915 till last days of Dec 1915. 146th Brigade : 5/, 6/, 7/ and 8/ Bn. West Yorkshires 147th : 4/, 5/, 6/ and 7/Bn. Duke of Wellington 148th : 4/ and 5/Bn. KOYLI and 4/ and 5/ Bn. Y&L As far as I found out it was the 147th Brigade that was there most of the time. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 10 July , 2005 Share Posted 10 July , 2005 This is the first one ever found by the diggers. This German mortar bomb was found in the English trench. The diameter is 23 cm. The whole device was still filled with black powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Several US cartridges were found last saturday in the 1915 trench. The top photo the text is US 15 on the other side of the base Vll. The second photo, the left one is the US 15 the right one is an English made .303 cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 this cartridge was made by US cartridge Co., Lowel, Massachusetts in 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 They were made for the British army. And transported to the UK, officialy only from 1917 on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 These circles were unearthed last saturday. The diameter is 3 feet but over the years they have been found up to a diameter of 6 feet. They have only been found in English positions near the canal at Boezinge and we have no clue at all for what purpose they served. Any suggestions will be very welcome. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Could they be reinforcing rings used to dig in wet , soft or sandy ground. Keep adding rings as you go deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Just coming back to the Ladungswerfers. I have just received the following information regarding this mortar. It was sent to us by Tony who is a member of the Belgian bomb squad. The top photo shows the 24 cm Ladungswerfer, many types were tried but this was one of the more succesfull types. Weight of the charge 14kg- 23kg. The weapon could reach 180-280 meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 11 July , 2005 Share Posted 11 July , 2005 Hi pals could these rings be for mortar positions ? stopping the base plates sinking after they had been bedded in just a thought Bruce <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ever thought that it can be rings of barrels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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