Cuinchy

[Alan_J]

I was at Cuinchy recently, and with the aid of a trench map copy and the modern map was trying to locate the site of the infamous brickstacks.

The best I could estimate is that they were on or near the site of a now abandoned factory of some sort, just to the north of the main road (N41). Attached a photo: is this in the right region, or was I miles off??

My assumption was they were just to the left (wset) as you look at the factory. There was a thread with some recent pictures of Cuinchy on the forum before the upgrade, and I couldn't find it (or at least, not with the pictures).

Cheers

Alan

[Alan_J]

here is the approximate position marked on a modern map.

[Alan_J]

I think I've answered my own question! Have just found this thread which shows several maps - looks like I was just about in the right place, although the brickstacks were a little further north from the main road.

Will search more thoroughly before asking my question next time!!

Alan

[Chris_Baker]

Alan, that's the site all right. It was actually an electricity generating station and until fairly recently there were a couple of cooling towers there.

[Alan_J]

Chris,

Thanks for confirming I was in the right place!

I did go carefully via the edge of a field to the left of the site, and looking over the walls that surround it the land to the north-west of the building pictured above appeared to be somewhat scarred.

I don't know if this was as a result of the war or of other actvities on the site since. It was certainly a site where the locals go shooting, as there were several small platforms and cartridge cases around.

I also found the other thread on the archives with the photos I referred to above (by Laurent I think), but they were taken some way away from the brickstacks site, although looking towards it.

Alan

[leigh]

Thats the place alright Alan,

I was thinking of going for a peek yesturday btu gald I didn't if you say the locals shoot there !!

Regards

leigh

[Alan_J]

Well, they weren't actually shooting when I was there, but there were cartridges all over the place.

Like others, I have walked past the cemeteries near the Bois Francais when the French are shooting (skeet shooting?) a little further up the ridge, which gives you a little bit of an eerie feeling!

Alan

[SPotter]

A quick query.......I am guessing but is the bridge just to the north of the highlighted area in ww1b's post Pont Fixe? If so this was the scene of the Dorset's epic fight on 12th and 13th October 1914.

Steve

[SPotter]

Apologies for bringing this up again - can anyone confirm the location of Pont Fixe (see above).

[leigh]

Apologies for bringing this up again - can anyone confirm the location of Pont Fixe (see above).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Pont Fixe' is the main bridge going north out of Cuinchy towards Windy corner.

It was also known as Vauxhall Bridge.

Can you provide me with some info as to this Dorset action?

Best regards

L.

[SPotter]

From the War Diary of the 1st Bn Dorsetshire Regiment:

MONDAY 12th OCTOBER 1914

?_.pm Bn marched with 15th Bde via GORRE towards FESTHUBERT. Bn halted

on RUE DE BETHUNE owing to shell fire and then moved South to

canal, thence along canal towpath to PONT FIXE. A & D Coys were

ordered to occupy positions South & North of the bridge A Coy

being on the South and D Coy on the north.

One machine Gun was placed on the 1st floor of a big unfinished

factory just North of the canal bank.

There was no immediate German advance but the machine gun in the

factory opened on Germans debouching from brickfields near H of

CUINCHY. The German firing line was checked by this fire. Later

a movement of Germans was detected just S of U of CUINCHY but

their advance presented a good target to the machine Gun and the

Germans fell back

4.pm General advance of Dorsets ordered [objective LA BASSEE] in

conjunction with French on right and 1/Bedford Regt on the left

A Coy moving on South bank of the canal and D Coy on the North

Bank forming the firing line B & C Coy being in reserve. The

machine Gun was ordered to support the attack.

A Coy moved up the South bank under cover of high bank and did

not come under fire from CUINCHY (although held by the enemy)

and subsequently inflicted severe loss upon Germans North of

CUINCHY. Meanwhile D.Coy. advancing from the factory towards a

small farm about 200 yds East of it came under heavy crossfire

from snipers on the high canal bank (southside) and suffered

casualties - Major Roper was killed at this farm about 4.30pm.

Attack had made excellent progress and a line had been

established from LA BASSEE Canal to large farm North of GIVENCHY

Dispositions for night.

B and C Coys entrenched on rise upon which above mentioed Farm

stood.

A Coy withdrawn to PONT FIXE and with D Coy and BnHdQrs billeted

there.

Casualties 11 killed 30 wounded 2 missing

[SPotter]

From Soldiers Died in the Great War:

MONDAY 12th OCTOBER 1914

Killed in Action

8845 BLOWS Herbert L/Cpl

5979 FRANKLIN William James L/Cpl

7067 ROBERTS Charles L/Cpl (or since)

7447 ROGERS Cecil L/Cpl

9496 BRIGGS Charles Albert Pte

9077 LENNARD William Herbert Pte

6753 LIGHT William Edward Pte

6553 MEAD Percy William Pte

7982 NUTBEAM Walter Pte

8047 WHELPDALE William Pte (or since)

7149 WHITSEY Arthur James Pte

9454 WOODMAN John Pte

[SPotter]

From the War Diary again...

TUESDAY 13th OCTOBER 1914

PONT FIXE - GIVENCHY. Reference ARRAS map

near LA BASSEE

In accordance with Bde Orders Bn moved at 5.30am as follows:

5.30am Firing line B and C Coys, Support D Coy, Reserve A Coy. Machine

Gun was in position in house on North Bank of Canal near I of

PONT FIXE.

Advance was slow in order to give units on right and left time

to get up in line.

7.20am Report to Bde that Bn had reached line 200 yds East of track

running South from E of GIVENCHY, and that advance had been

checked to enable Bns on right (1/Bedfords) and left

(2/K.O.S.Borderers) to come up into line. Also that there

appeared to be little opposition in front.

Situation remained the same till 9.am the village of CUINCHY on

south bank of canal being not cleared of the enemy

9.10am O.C. Dorsets reported situation to Bde stating Bn position was

the same as reported at 7.20am.

11.20am Enemy shelled Bn very heavily from a NorthEasterly direction.

12.noon Hostile machine gun opened heavy enfilade fire at short range on

our right flank - near Canal Bank.

B Coy commenced to withdraw as their right was exposed.

12.30pm O.C. Dorsets reported situation and asked for artillery support.

Enemys artillery & machine gun fire increased in volume and

firing line gradually fell back on trenches occupied by supports

12.45pm Major SAUNDERS sent to dispose reserve Company and inform

artillery Commander of situation

1.45pm Germans advanced from East end of GIVENCHY, some carrying

lances. About 250 suddenly appeared from the left rear of C Coy.

These were mistaken for French Cavalry and fire was not opened

on them.

About a Battalion appeared about 900 yds from left of C Coy.

As soon as it was seen that these were Germans fire was opened

on them. The Germans advanced holding up their either one or

both hands. This was taken as a sign of surrender & some men

left the trench to go towards the Germans, who then closed in

rapidly, driving in our men and enfilading the trench. The

position of remaining lines now became untenable. Lt Col BOLS

and Lt and Adjt PITT remained to the last in the trench in which

they had been all day. Col Bols was severely wounded in

attempting to get away & Lt Pitt killed. The retirement was

skilfully covered by the Reserve Company (A Coy) under Captain

W.A.C. Fraser, who in return retired to a position in building

about PONT FIXE, and a new line was established from PONT FIXE

to factory the line being there continued by 2 Coys 1st DEVONS

along PONT FIXE - FESTUBERT Road. Enemy made two attacks on

A Coy & DEVON Coys during the night but were repulsed.

Casualties:- 51 Killed, 152 Wounded, 210 Missing

[SPotter]

And from SDGW for the 13th...

TUESDAY 13th OCTOBER 1914

Killed in Action

4980 PARKER William Joseph C.S.M.

6702 BOATER Alfred Sgt

8108 HEAL William Ronner Sgt

7148 BILES Charles Samuel L/Sgt (or since)

9036 ARNELL Alfred Cpl (or since)

3/5323 JAMES Harry Cpl

8333 VANSITTART William Cpl (or since)

6913 BONNER Robert A/Cpl

6223 BARNETT Francis Alfred L/Cpl (or since)

9228 BRICKER William L/Cpl

8530 BURTON William James L/Cpl

9411 COLLIER Horace L/Cpl

8207 GIBBENS Charles William L/Cpl

8029 GOULDING William L/Cpl (or since)

3/6034 HOLT Frederick Charles L/Cpl

7571 JACOMB Herbert George L/Cpl

7200 LEFEVRE William L/Cpl

6893 MARKHAM George Richard L/Cpl (or since)

3/5484 NASH William Henry L/Cpl (or since)

7856 PEARCE Arthur L/Cpl

8145 RAISEY George L/Cpl

9189 RANCE Charles L/Cpl

7371 SUMMERS William L/Cpl

7486 ADAMS John Pte (or since)

7746 ANDREWS Albert Pte (or since)

8208 ANDREWS Charles John Pte (or since)

6960 ANTHONY John James Pte (or since)

7132 BURNESS Henry Benjamin Pte

8386 BURT Frederick Robert Pte

3/6456 CROOK Thomas Pte (or since)

7052 DAWKINS Gregory Pte (or since)

7261 DAY Edwin Pte (or since)

9343 DEWSON John William Pte (or since)

8079 DIMES William Pte (or since)

9597 DUMOND Alphonse Pte (or since)

9319 GRIDLEY Edward George Pte (or since)

8059 HILLMAN Henry Pte (or since)

3/5653 HOLLYOAKS Percy James Pte

6338 HOPKINS Henry Charles Pte

5871 HOUSE Samuel Isaac Pte (or since)

9222 HURLEY Herbert George Pte

7317 HUSSEY George Pte

6592 HYDE Benjamin Pte

6107 JAMES Joseph Pte

8479 JEANS Frank Herbert Pte (or since)

6996 KEECH Jack Pte (or since)

7246 LINHAM William Henry Pte (or since)

5513 LUSTY Fred Pte

3/5257 MAIDMENT Andrew Pte (or since)

7264 MAY William Pte

7875 McKENZIE William Thomas Pte (or since)

3/6347 MEAR Arthur Louis Pte

6117 MOORES William Pte

7291 MORRIS Charles George Pte

7729 NAYLOR John Pte (or since)

8711 NEAL Herbert Henry Pte

6374 ORCHARD Clarence William Pte (or since)

3/5734 OSBORNE John Pte

7206 PEARCE George Pte (or since)

9572 PENFOLD George Walter Pte

3/5800 PETERS Alfred Pte

6016 PHILLIPS William John Pte

8099 PINK Arthur Pte (or since)

9545 PRESTWICK Charles Edmund Pte (or since)

5987 RIDEOUT Frederick Pte

6516 SALISBURY William Richard Pte

5977 SANDFORD Sidney Thomas Pte

7135 SHARPE Frank J Pte (or since)

9246 SKIPSEY Thomas Anthony Pte (Med. Mil)

7494 SLADE Arthur Pte (or since)

8075 STARMER John Pte (or since)

6970 SULLIVAN John Pte

6417 SUTER Daniel Pte

6950 UTTRIDGE William Charles Pte

9569 VINING William Pte (or since)

7588 WARD Thomas Pte (or since)

8243 WARREN Arthur Pte (or since)

7979 WATTS Herbert James Pte

7922 WILSON Charles Pte

Died of Wounds

5851 WOOLFRIES Samuel Charles Pte

[SPotter]

I have often wondered what map would have been used at this time (obviously not a trench map as they hadn't been developed at this time). I am most keen to obtain one, so I can confirm the actual locations mentioned in the text above. The practise of referring to the position of letters of a place name on a specific map is only of use if you have a copy of the same map, which leads me to believe there must have been a standard series in use otherwise the confusion would have been catastrophic.

What is the opinion on maps such as this?

Or can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Steve

[leigh]

Steve,

Thanks for the diary entries, I am doing a research of the Cuinchy area and this is all interesting.

My interest is also in the early war so if i find any map info I will forward it.

Regards the maps they were using, did you get the diary from the NA? If they were refering to the maps I would think that there may be a map with the diary. Or possibly a map in the map archive at the NA that the reffered to.

I will have a look see next time I am down there.

Regards

Leigh

[AndrewThornton]

The 2nd Battalion of The Dorsetshire Regiment were also engaged in the same area between 25th-27th May 1940, with one of the forward companies holding the north end of Pont Fixe, while Battalion Headquarters used the large Great War blockhouse in Festubert as their command post. They again suffered heavily and only about 250 men made it back to England from Dunkirk. Many Dorsets (my Grandfather included) were captured there.

[dycer]

Steve,

Re Maps.I have few Maps similar to the E-Bay one and this is a reply I received to a query I made on the Forum from Dave(Croonaert)

"What you have are "Tactical Maps".These are what the BEF went to War with in August 1914(1:100,000 covering Belgium and 1:80,000 covering France).After the Battle of the Aisne,the 1:80,000 was enlarged to a 1:40,000 scale "Artillery Map".This was sometimes enlarged again to 1:20,000".

As it happens the 1:80,000 one I have is of the Lille District and probably includes Guinchy but it also includes Sailly-sur -La-Lys where an Uncle is buried so I won't part with it.

I leave it to others to advise whether the E-Bay selling price is fair.

George

[leigh]

George,

Any chance of a scan from the Cuinchy area ?

Regards

Leigh

[CROONAERT]

What is the opinion on maps such as this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Steve.

Right kind of map - wrong kind of price!!!!!! (The vendor must have put a 7 instead of a 1 )

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

Here's a scan from an earlyish (1915 - unsure of month but probably March - June) 1:40,000 scale map of the Cuinchy area.

This scale (with possibly some 1;20,000 scalers) would have been taking over from the 1:80,000 scale maps for the infantry in this area by October 1914.

Dave.

[SPotter]

Regards the maps they were using, did you get the diary from the NA? If they were refering to the maps I would think that there may be a map with the diary. Or possibly a map in the map archive at the NA that the reffered to.

Leigh,

Thanks for responding. Indeed the transcript is direct from the war diary held at the NA. There was no map accompanying the diary itself, but I would be surprised if items such as this were retained by the Adjutant - the paperwork would have become very cumbersome as they moved to new areas and new maps were required? Perhaps a search of the maps archive may well pay dividends but it will be extremely difficult to say definitively that any particular map was THE one referred to unless there was a single series that was in use. Any assistance you may be able to give in this respect would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

[leigh]

Many thanks for the scan Dave.

L.

[TaraB]

Woo my first post - scary !!!

Sorry to rehash this old thread again, but I just had a question that I thought you might all be able to help me answer.

I was recently in Cuinchy and spent a lovely afternoon walking around the area.

I was wondering if anyone here could confirm the exact location of the 'triangle' that the Irish Guards were protecting at the beginning of February 1915.

In Rudyard Kipling's book he refers to this as a 'Railway' triangle but I see no sign of anything that looks like a triangle near the railway line.

Just looking at Dave's map above (thanks Dave) there is a triangle of roads just to the left of the Brickstacks and I was wondering if anyone can cofirm that this is definitely the 'triangle' or if it is located elsewhere.

Thanking you

Tara

[KevinBattle]

Would the Raiklway Triangle be more likely in the area to the RIGHT of the brickstacks on that map? The railway runs along the western edge of the canal and then there is a triangle of railway sidings to take the line to the left of Auchy lez la Bassee?

Why would roads be referred to as RAILWAY Triangle when there are rail tracks no too far away?