Time Served soldiers & Silver War Badges

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

If time served soldiers did not re-enlist and say left the srmy in 1917, were they eligible for a Silver War Badge?

If not, what other badge or insignia did they wear to stop being given a white feather?

Ian

[Ivor Lee]

An interesting question Ian!

I have no idea of the answer.

Two thoughts:

1. I wonder how many time served men would have want to leave during the war?

2. Would they have been allowed to leave?

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Ivor,

One example is 45612 Spr Ernest Cooley RE whose MIC indicates he left the army in July 1917, but no SWB listing. I have checked the SWB rolls for the RE around July/August/September 1917 and there is no mention of him. The medal roll cites Para 392 etc, what is left of his record states 'time served'.

Ian

[Guest Simon Bull]

My Great Grandfather Albert Banner served in the Boer War in the KSLI. By 1914 he was a reservist. He was recalled to the colours in 1914, but never served outside the UK and was discharged in 1916. His records show him to have been time served.

Incidentally, I acquired his records from the PRO some years ago. I was able to see them in the original paper form. For reasons I will not relate now, the PRO copied them for me, but did not put the record reference on the copies. I am sure that these records were not in WO 364 or 365, but I have now forgotten which record series they came from. Can anyone help me as to which series a regular recalled to the colours but not going overseas is likely to have had his records placed in?

Simon Bull

[Muerrisch]

Time serving. This is a big subject, herewith a simplified answer. We are really discussing pre-war regulars, the concept of anyone else being time served is a bit unlikely although some TF and SR soldiers might have qualified [shorter engagements] they are outside my line of sight. Hostilities-only engagements were for three years or the duration.

Until Military Service Act 1916 etc, a regular soldier was liable for his colours service plus reserve [usually but not always 12 years total] plus a year for King George in war or if overseas. If he got out before mid 1916 he walked away, liable in theory to subsequent conscription unless he had also reached 41 years of age. After mid 1916, only the sick and wounded could walk away, the rest were retained, bribed with a decent bounty and home furlough, and held to their duty. Frank Richards DCM MM 2RWF a famous example.

The Silver War Badge for the wounded was only for the discharged wounded, not the discharged.

Big subject, this is from top of my head without recourse to notes. Any evidence to contrary gratefully received.

[Muerrisch]

Whoops! Sorry, should have checked! Before the experts kick me to death, get my revenge in first.

Silver War Badge AO 316 12 Sep 1916 for those who have served at home or abroad since 4 Aug 1914 and who on account of age, or physical infirmity arising from wounds or sickness caused by military service have .... retired [officers] or .... been discharged [men]

[munce]

The war diary for the Ayrshire Yeomanry records some 89 men becoming time-expired in April 1916 (when they were in Suez having come back from Gallipoli), of whom 14 re-engaged with the regiment. So the issue was a pertinent one for the TF as well, and it appears that if your time was up, most men were only too happy to go!

[AndrewThornton]

The war diary for the Ayrshire Yeomanry records some 89 men becoming time-expired in April 1916 (when they were in Suez having come back from Gallipoli), of whom 14 re-engaged with the regiment. So the issue was a pertinent one for the TF as well, and it appears that if your time was up, most men were only too happy to go!

The problem of time-expired men was very much an issue for the Territorial Force as they served under different terms to their Regular and New Army counterparts.

The period of engagement in peacetime had been for four years, but on the outbreak of hostilities this was extended automatically to five years. In addition, the primary role of the Territorial Force was that of home defence and consequently not liable for service overseas. Individuals could volunteer to do so in wartime under the terms of the Imperial Service Obligation. Prior to the outbreak of war, only around 18,000 members of the force nationally had volunteered to serve overseas if required. Therefore, new recruits to the Territorial Force could in theory enlist for home service only, even though the requirement for troops for active service was pressing.

The main directive that stopped this anomoly was the termination of direct enlistments to the Territorial Force from December 1915, as in future all recruits would serve under the same conditions of service. The problem then came to a head when a large proportion of those Territorials who had enlisted in 1910/11 came to the end of their period of engagement. To counter the loss of soldiers from Territorial units, the incentive for re-enlisting under the new terms of service was that the soldier would be given one months furlough before rejoining his unit. Those who chose not to re-engage, and many chose not to, did not escape however. They were warned that because they had been discharged they would be liable for conscription on their return to civilian life. Not surprisingly, many men opted to stay with their mates, although units in the Middle East did seem to suffer higher numbers of men returning home after they were time-expired than those on the Western Front - probably because of the remote possibility of leave being granted.