Could Tub[ercular] Meningitis be a complication/ after effect/ side effect of paratyphoid?

[rolt968]

A question for the medical experts. It seems unlikely to me but could tubercular meningitis result from having had paratyphoid.

John Ramsay, Gnr, 82144, RGA contracted paratyphoid in mid April 1917 (it may have been mistakenly diagnosed as trench fever or he was already suffering from trench fever). He was discharged as unfit with chronic interstitial inflammation of the lung which was taken to caused by paratyphoid contracted during his service.

He died of Tub[ercular] Meningitis on 28 January 1919 in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary.

There is an unusually complete set of records.

RM

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

17 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

could tubercular meningitis result from having had paratyphoid.

No.

He was discharged 14/1/18 with "chronic interstitial inflammation of the lung ", whatever that was caused by.
Tuberculous meningitis is generally an acute or sub-acute illness with onset over a few days or weeks.
It is possible that the "chronic interstitial inflammation of the lung " in 1918 was a variant of early pulmonary TB, which acted as a focus for the TB to spread into the man's brain and meninges, but that would be very unlikely and in any case totally unproveable after the passage of all this time.

Far more likely is that he recovered from the acute paratyphoid infection, then was infected with TB, and was susceptible to infection in the meningeal space of his brain, and succumbed.
Obviously Paratyphoid and TB are two separate unrelated bacteria, and as far as I am aware, there is no evidence that prior infection with the former renders one susceptible to infection with the latter.

[rolt968]

5 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

No.

He was discharged 14/1/18 with "chronic interstitial inflammation of the lung ", whatever that was caused by.
Tuberculous meningitis is generally an acute or sub-acute illness with onset over a few days or weeks.
It is possible that the "chronic interstitial inflammation of the lung " in 1918 was a variant of early pulmonary TB, which acted as a focus for the TB to spread into the man's brain and meninges, but that would be very unlikely and in any case totally unproveable after the passage of all this time.

Far more likely is that he recovered from the acute paratyphoid infection, then was infected with TB, and was susceptible to infection in the meningeal space of his brain, and succumbed.
Obviously Paratyphoid and TB are two separate unrelated bacteria, and as far as I am aware, there is no evidence that prior infection with the former renders one susceptible to infection with the latter.

Thank you!

That is more or less what I suspected.

It's interesting. I said that there are very complete records. I had missed one thing and forgotten another. When he was discharged it says that the lung problem dated from February 1917, presumably the onset of trench fever. When he was discharged he was also suffering from nephritis which if I remember rightly could be caused by trench fever.  

There is a curious phrase which I am not sure that I understand (in the report on/from the final medical board before discharge): "Result of service in present war sequal (sic) to paratyphoid".

It is followed by "Permanent. Presents 70% at present".

RM

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

40 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

he was also suffering from nephritis which if I remember rightly could be caused by trench fever.  

Yes, that's correct.

His records are here, but I regret I can't find the entry that you quote @rolt968:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1219/records/1668934?tid=&pid=&queryId=548fe94a-4d0a-4b6a-af98-cd2887eb38c5&_phsrc=bDw2816&_phstart=successSource

I've done a quick PubMed search on longterm sequelae, but can only turn up references to increased risk of Cancer of the Gall Bladder. Clearly not what he had.

 

[rolt968]

Many thanks.

I had downloaded that from both ancestry and FmP. However there are, I think two separate WO 363 records for John Ramsay at both ancestry and FmP. (I said there was an unusually complete record.)

These pages come from the "other" WO 363 records and are taken from the FindmyPast version which is better.

This is the entry to which I referred:

However there is also this from the report of a pension(?) board on 14 November 1918:

Based particularly on the second I had formed the view that he was in a weakened state and more vulnerable to infection but could not see a direct connection between the meningitis and his earlier conditions.

RM

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Yes, ambiguous isn't it.
You could read it as though the lung condition was attributed to paratyphoid, which I don't think  can happen.

[aconnolly]

Agree with the above from you both.  It's

possible the paratyphoid could have left him more susceptible to TB or other respiratory disease around the time he was infected with paratyphoid.  But agree not a case of the PT causing the respiratory disease.  Give death was tubercular meningitis then respiratory TB also likely although not "essential".  Any suggestion he was gassed?

Andrew

 

[rolt968]

39 minutes ago, aconnolly said:

Agree with the above from you both.  It's

possible the paratyphoid could have left him more susceptible to TB or other respiratory disease around the time he was infected with paratyphoid.  But agree not a case of the PT causing the respiratory disease.  Give death was tubercular meningitis then respiratory TB also likely although not "essential".  Any suggestion he was gassed?

Andrew

 

I don't think so. He was only in France for about six months. All but about six weeks of that he was in some kind of hospital. He doesn't seem to have reached a battery. The nearest was 78 Heavy Group, although that may have been where they wanted to keep him. He had passed first class in signalling and telephony(?).

Can anyone please make any sense of these? They are the same thing from the two versions of his record. (Again from FindmyPast.):

Thank you

RM

 

[aconnolly]

Possibly "sick ?? cas  list"

Andrew

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Sick W.O Cas. List HA 6992

There are experts on here who know where to find casualties on War Office Casualty Lists.
But not me...

[rolt968]

15 hours ago, aconnolly said:

Possibly "sick ?? cas  list"

Andrew

 

11 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Sick W.O Cas. List HA 6992

There are experts on here who know where to find casualties on War Office Casualty Lists.
But not me...

Thank you both. I would not have got that - I was not thinking along those lines at all.

RM