Captain F B Joyce MC 10th Sherwood Foresters

[corisande]

I think this is your man, but a wrong initial (unless someone can find a death for J B Joyce MC in Sherwood Foresters

[corisande]

Then this is his baptism in Swindon but I still cannot get his birth in London

[corisande]

And his mother is Edith Mary Money

Marriages Mar 1899  
Buttgenbach     Horace Adolphus          Pancras     1b    201  
Money     Edith Mary           Pancras    

So he was born Illegitimate and that seems to have been Franklyn Money in Marylebone in 1896
 

 

[grantowi]

Many thanks again to all

This story is getting more complicated rather than easier :-)

Frank B Joyce is on the memorial that David posted in the "GWR" church (not really the GWR church, but it is right next to the works) and so some one must have paid to have it put there, possibly his uncle, Charles Steele with whom he is living in 1911 before he went off to Cranleigh. I will try to check to see if he came back to work in the GWR after leaving Cranleigh as he must have been doing something between 1913 until Feb 1915 when he got his commission.

I think that Corisande has solve most of this little puzzle, something that I would never had been able to achieve with out the help of this forum, so once again, thank you every one for your help and now Frank go on my list so that he can be remembered for his service.

Grant

[corisande]

He kept me out of mischief for a good while tonight

I have not delved too  much into his father, but he went bankrupt in early 1900's and will have materially effected the family

It is impossible to know who the biological father actually was. It could have been Horace Buttgenbach     , but it may have been someone else, given Frank was born in 1896 and his parents did not marry till 1899

Given Frank had Surnames "Money", " Buttgenbach" and "Joyce" I suppose it is not surprising that the Kings Proctor was involved in his probate

[grantowi]

I spent over four hours in the library today (I have no subscriptions at home) and found nothing new on him. I still think that he was employed in the GWR works in-between finishing school and the war. He is not listed on the GWR memorial nor in their magazine (which routinely listed the enlisted GWR dead) but that is the only reason that I can think of for being on the St Mark's church memorial.

But he is now on my list, along with all of the information that this forum has been able to provide me with, so once again, than you to every one.

A final question, do I have enough information to pass on to the CWGC and get his name used instead of just his initials ?

Grant

[corisande]

I doubt that you have.

He was born "Franklyn Money" and you can get a BC for that

His mother then marries Buttgenbach and he was baptised "Franklin Buttgenbach"

He then acquired the "Bernard" as a second Christian name, but there  is no "official" documentation

His father changes his name in LG to Joyce, and he himself went to Cranleigh as "F B Buttenbach" which the school later changed to "F B Joyce"

The CWGC are an organisation that need certificates for everything

You could try them will all the stuff in this thread plus a few extra bits of information , but it is not what they normally accept. His background is so complicated, and the real deal breaker is that "Bernard" has  no official documentation

You can put together a fairly persuasive case, but they are a "paperwork" based organisation

 

[grantowi]

But as far as the Army were concerned, he was Frank Bernard Joyce, as all the changes had been made prior to him joining up.

CWGC already have him down as F B Joyce, we have his LG commission and his MIC which both give his full name.

So we don't need to prove his identity.

Grant

[corisande]

The only way you can find out is to put the facts to them 

[grantowi]

On 02/10/2024 at 22:36, corisande said:

The only way you can find out is to put the facts to them 

I'm onto it :-)

Grant