Post WW1 tunic??

[potty5]

Hi all, picked this tunic up recently from a local antiques market. The owner (no name in tunic) served in the Royal Sussex Regiment and by the look of his medal ribbons, won the Military Cross and was also mentioned in dispatches. As he also has a WW2 ribbon, what period is the tunic please?? I believe it is post Great War, but what is the exact title for such a tunic please?? (service, dress etc.). Thanks very much for reading, best wishes, Mark.

[potty5]

[FROGSMILE]

It’s a “service dress jacket” made in whipcord**.  In WW1 there were broadly speaking four types you might come across:

1. Original 1902 pattern.  This had a shorter skirt, a broad vertical pleat down the centre rear and usually a closed turnover collar.  Rank was on the cuff and there were twisted shoulder cords as opposed to straps.

2. Foot Guards pattern.  This had plain patch pockets without expansion pleats, an open stepped collar and rank markings on shoulder straps only.  

3.  Revised 1912 pattern of number 1.  This had a longer skirt more akin to a riding jacket, no rear pleat, an open stepped collar, and a stitched in cloth belt to reinforce the area where the leather Sam Browne would sit over.  Rank was also on the cuff, but could  be moved to shoulder straps that replaced the cords as an alternative, where it already was for general officers. 

4.  Utilitarian pattern.  This was as for number 3 above, but without the stitched in waist belt.

NB.  In WW2 the utilitarian pattern was resurrected from around 1941 because it saved on cloth, which was rationed during that war.  Unlike WW1 all examples had rank on the shoulder straps only.

Conclusion:  your jacket is either number 4 above, or the resurrected version of it.  Given the WW2 ribbon then it is certainly from after the date of that medal’s introduction.

** as well as whipcord there was various weights of serge, and barathea cloths depending upon unit preference too.

Edited 10 September by FROGSMILE

[potty5]

Much obliged Frogsmile. Thank you very much for your information. Best wishes, Mark

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, potty5 said:

Much obliged Frogsmile. Thank you very much for your information. Best wishes, Mark

I’m glad to help.  You have a very nice jacket.  There was usually a proprietary label inside with hand written details that often included the date of manufacture and for whom.  Usually in an inner breast pocket, but sometimes in the neck. 

Edited 10 September by FROGSMILE

[CorporalPunishment]

3 hours ago, potty5 said:

You need to rearrange those rank badges. The crown goes above the pips in all cases and if the owner was a Colonel you will need red collar tabs to replace the collar badges. It looks like the seller might have created the "Promotion" for effect.     Pete.

[FROGSMILE]

It wasn’t the case during WW1 that all full colonels wore gorget tabs.  Only officers on the staff or appointed as Royal ADC, etc.

Here are some examples of the typical types potty5.

Notice the typical tailors bespoke label and the stitched in waist belts of the two lower jackets.  That type was more expensive.

images via websearch.

 

Edited 10 September by FROGSMILE

[CorporalPunishment]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It wasn’t the case during WW1 that all full colonels wore gorget tabs.  Only officers on the staff or appointed as Royal ADC, etc.

Here are some examples of the typical types potty5.

Notice the typical tailors bespoke label and the stitched in waist belts of the two lower jackets.  That type was more expensive.

Clearly, with the Defence Medal ribbon present, we're not talking WW1 here.         Pete.

[FROGSMILE]

48 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Clearly, with the Defence Medal ribbon present, we're not talking WW1 here.         Pete.

Yes as I mentioned, but it still wasn’t the case at the time that all Colonels wore red tabs.  That is a more modern change between the wars.  From memory I think it changed when Brigadier General was abolished around 1928.  They introduced Colonel Commandant and Colonel on the Staff (see below).

Previously the rank groupings had been:

1. Company Officers. Second Lieutenant, Lieutenant and Captain.

2. Field Officers.  Major, Lieutenant Colonel and Colonel.

3. General Officers.  Brigadier General, Major General, Lieutenant General, General.

4. Field Marshals.

Then after a widespread reorganisation in 1928 it became:

1. Company Officers, unchanged.

2. Field Officers. Major and Lieutenant Colonel.

3. Staff Officers. Colonel and Brigadier**.

4. General Officers. Major General, Lieutenant General, General.

5. Field Marshals.

** this was after failed tinkering in the early 1920s when for a few years Brigadier General was abolished and instead there was a ‘Colonel Commandant’ to replace him for command appointments, and a ‘Colonel on the Staff’ to work in Directorates and Headquarters.  In 1928 the Colonel Commandant was abolished and replaced by Brigadier, and Colonel on the Staff by Substantive Colonel.  It was from that point on that all Substantive Colonels, regardless of their appointment, wore red tabs.

 

Edited 10 September by FROGSMILE