Opinions please - 1914 Iron Cross

[Docker31]

Hi All

I hope this is the right place to post this. 

I will be honest in that I am no expert in German medals of any kind. I recently bought a box of miscellaneous military items from a local auction house at a very good price, right at the bottom of the box was this Iron Cross. My question is - is it genuine or not. There is a makers mark 'WS' stamped near the hook on the bottom.

Any replies greatly appreciated

Thanks for looking

Andy

[depaor01]

NOT an expert, but I own a WW1 example and the patina and back look good. Made by Walter Schott. Here's an example for comparison:

https://gielsmilitaria.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=8336

I think WW2 iron crosses are more widely faked, so my amateur opinion is that it's a good 'un, although it looks like the core may have been repainted.

Dave

Edited 8 September by depaor01

[chaz]

I wont post them here but there are a few web sites that explain.

The EK came in 4 categories, Pre WW1/WW1, WW2, 1957 and current.

I bought a WW2 screwback EK1 from a German Militaria dealer at a militaria fair, When I decided to concentrate on WW1 family named medals I sold the EK1. It went to a buyer in America. It then resulted in a request for a refund, money sent, medal returned. He said it was a fake.  I mentioned to another dealer, his reply was, "he will sell you a fake but he wont buy one" .   HE has new German militaria every different fair I go to, so tops up his stock regularly.

In short, its crispness of the features in the centre, the black should be gloss not matt,  test with a magnet, if cast, will not be as magnetic and the originals were three piece.

There is a big production business set up in the Eastern Europe area knocking out replicas. These could also be aged and stamped. A casting will not be as crisp and sharp cornered as an original. Mainly a WW2 issue, the 1957 variety were less the swastika. I asked a German lady in the late sixties if she could get me one when she went back. Her son was my friend , lived across the road, father was a British Sgt Major, She said, no, they were not allowed to keep them and were all melted down and replaced. Funny how all these years later they still crop up!!

 

 

[GreyC]

3 hours ago, chaz said:

The EK came in 4 categories, Pre WW1/WW1, WW2, 1957 and current.

Hi,

interesting categorisation, seems a bit arbitrary, though.

It was established in 1813 and again awarded in 1870/71, 1914/18 and 1939/45. The 1957 version was the form without the swastica of those ICs awarded 1939/45  for those who wanted to wear it post war. And what do you mean by current? There is no medal or order of the Iron Cross after the variation of 1939-1945.

No offense,

GreyC

Edited 8 September by GreyC

[chaz]

current being the modern Eastern European produced copies.

categorised as times of production, pre WW1 carried through to WW1, WW2 with swastika, 1957 WW2 but without swastika and modern as described.

There is a market for the EK as many other items, just as WW1 named British are erased. If someone collects , someone will provide.

German WW2 dog tags being removed from buried bodies in the South of Russia, just to feed a need.

[GreyC]

21 minutes ago, chaz said:

categorised as times of production, pre WW1 carried through to WW1, WW2 with swastika, 1957 WW2 but without swastika and modern as described.

Understood, thanks for clarification,

GreyC

[Docker31]

Thanks for the information.

Knowledge is a wonderful thing

Andy

[chaz]

Andy, for a reasonable check.

around the edges , is there signs of a seam or join. Not conclusive, but a seam would point towards a 3 piece construction.. Of course, it may have been polished down

[Docker31]

I have checked and there does seem to be a seam around the edge. 

I had someone else look at it yesterday and he says it is genuine.