NZ P1907s

[5thBatt]

Thanks to a recent acquisition I now have 5 early NZ issued P1907s

[navydoc16]

1 hour ago, 5thBatt said:

Thanks to a recent acquisition I now have 5 early NZ issued P1907s

The numbers appear to be quite low as you have stated, is there an understanding of how many they had? 
 

kine regards

g

[5thBatt]

That's about a 10,000 spread there

I believe the inventory numbers started at 1 on a Mk1 SMLE & go to around 13,000 at least on the MkIIIs, I suspect the change from Mk1 to MkIII was around 2000 to 2500

No real evidence as yet but still looking

[5thBatt]

[navydoc16]

@5thBatt stunning! Much appreciated 

kind regards

g

[Mattr82]

@5thBatt Have there been many examples of ConD IVs seen in NZ?

 

[5thBatt]

55 minutes ago, Mattr82 said:

@5thBatt Have there been many examples of ConD IVs seen in NZ?

 

No, seen 2 maybe 3, don't think I have seen one in the last 15 years, if I had I would have tried to own it & I would remember that 

Edited 8 September by 5thBatt

[Mattr82]

Thanks mate. I don't recall seeing any from NZ etc. 

They were a bit of a pariah post-WW1 in Australia.

The reason I ask is that the document above has references from issuing of Mk.VII sighted rifles from the British 11th Division.

In 1917, NZ and Australians received Mk.IIIs and "Mk.IVs" from the 22nd Mounted Brigade when elements of the Yeomanry reconstituted.

From what we've gathered, at least four Light Horse Regiments held onto their equipment and returned with items including weapons in mid-1919 instead of handing it back to British ordnance at the end of hostilities in late 1918.

I would imagine it was the same for NZ forces that were part of the Mounted DIVs and they returned with their equipment.

Anyways, all in all I just wanted to see if you had seen many examples as there was a concerted effort to rid Australian stocks of them in the 1920s.

[5thBatt]

We don't see a lot of the NZ issued pre war MkIIIs, I suspect a lot were exchanged during or at wars end, about 500 were converted to No2s in NZ around 1928 & those are what we see most with only a few still in 303 & often still sighted for MkVI,  I do wonder if the early MkIIIs that were converted to No2s were in fact our returning battle worn rifles, as stated in the article, most Great War era SMLEs seen in NZ are dated 1918 with a few 1916 & 17 dated examples 

[Mattr82]

The early ones that were converted to .22 I would imagine were ones considered “old” and were deemed acceptable to be converted to .22 as opposed to upgraded for Mk.VII ammunition as they already received Mk.VII sighted rifles from Britain. 

If they’re marked with pre-war style NZ markings then that would be a good indicator I guess.

Whether NZ brought back any rifles from the Mounted Regiments in 1919, I’m unsure. I doubt it would be any sizeable amount if they did. 

On the topic of HQ bayonets, I think I’ve seen more HQ bayonets marked to NZ than pre-war SMLEs. They’re a great thing to see when we do.

Thanks for sharing with us @5thBatt

Edited 8 September by Mattr82

[5thBatt]

I have 3 of the early MkIIIs, 2 converted to .22 & the other still sighted for MkVI in 303

[Mattr82]

Is that the 1912 BSA?

I often wonder how they managed to avoid upgrades.

Thoughts on that? 

[5thBatt]

6 hours ago, Mattr82 said:

Is that the 1912 BSA?

I often wonder how they managed to avoid upgrades.

Thoughts on that? 

1909 EFD

 

 

[Steve1871]

MATTr82

Many of us entitled your chat on this thread, I even got lost, what is a   ConD. IV?? A mark of rifle or what? Usually go by Asterisks 

[Mattr82]

@Steve1871 the ConD IVs (Converted Mk.IVs) are rifles that were originally Long Lees but were converted to be No.1 Mk.IIIs.