KIA Mons - buried on Aisne

[chris basey]

6913 Pte Walter Edward BUNN 1st Norfolks was, according to Regimental sources killed in action at Elouges (Mons) on 24th August 1914. CWGC states (and grave seen) buried at Buzancy (on the Aisne.

Any explanation for the distance?

[Bob Coulson]

Chris,

Buzancy Military Cemetery was started in July 1918 by the 15th Scottish Division.

It's possible that your man was brought in to this cemetery from a smaller location during the clearances when many small burial plots were relocated.

Bob.

[Staffsyeoman]

It doesn't say so explicitly in the CWGC readout, but it seems apparent that Buzancy was a 'consolidation' cemetery to some extent, viz:

"The Military Cemetery was made by the 15th Division, beside a French Military Cemetery from which the graves have been removed to Ambleny; and the original graves (in Plot I, Rows A-C) contain 96 burials. After the Armistice, graves were brought in from the battlefields. There are now over 300, 1914-18 war casualties commemorated in this site. Of these, over 70 are unidentified and special memorials are erected to nine soldiers believed to be buried among them. "

[Paul Reed]

In my experience some of the graves in this cemetery were brought in from German cemeteries; men taken POW and who died in German hands, and were buried by them. I suspect this was the case with your man.

[hensteadboy]

I know this thread is quite ancient but.......  in my research of names on Lowestoft War Memorials i also have come across Walter Edward Bunn from Kessingland.  If he was killed on Aug 24 1914 as sources would suggest, I can see no logical reason for him beiing buried on the Aisne.   According to the CWGC archive material now available online he was originally buried in MIssy-sur-Aisne Communal Cemetery and, along with five other casualies - from September 1914 including three Norfolk Regt men - moved to Buzancy British Cemetery in June 1936.

THis does not help as I feel something is awry here because the possibility of a fatal caualty being transported from Elouges to the Aisne duringn the Retreat from Mons seems very unlikely.

On the assumption that the CWGC information is accurate, and I have no reason to suppose otherwise, perhaps the date of death is wrong?

Just one of those niggly little things that are strewn on the path of War Memorial research.

[Matlock1418]

On 24/06/2003 at 19:45, chris basey said:

according to Regimental sources killed in action at Elouges (Mons) on 24th August 1914

Which sources?

Couldn't find a WD for 1NR before October 1914 - anyone had more luck?

Or an alternative source?

1 hour ago, hensteadboy said:

perhaps the date of death is wrong?

CWGC give as 24 August 1914

Pension Card 11/W/6013 gives "Pres. Dead" Date and cause of death "24-8-14" - Card starts from 18.8.15 with date of notification of death 23.6.15 and 27.12.15

Pension Ledger 11/W/6013 gives "D/ofD 24.8.14 Missing"

 

Edit:

CWGC COG-BR Concentration Report for Missy Sur Aisne Comunal Cemetery to Buzancy Military Cemetery reports his remains identified in a "Small Etat-Civil coffin" [as were the others on this CR] - so looks like buried by the French originally - the "small" possibly reflecting the burial of small remains [possibly recovered some time after death?]

Edited 16 February , 2020 by Matlock1418
Addition

[AOK4]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Edit:

CWGC COG-BR Concentration Report for Missy Sur Aisne Comunal Cemetery to Buzancy Military Cemetery reports his remains identified in a "Small Etat-Civil coffin" [as were the others on this CR] - so looks like buried by the French originally - the "small" possibly reflecting the burial of small remains [possibly recovered some time after death?]

 

Wouldn't it be more probable then that the French had exhumed the remains after the war? The man may very well have been buried by the Germans then originally? Did anyone check the Red Cross files?

 

Jan

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, AOK4 said:

Wouldn't it be more probable then that the French had exhumed the remains after the war? The man may very well have been buried by the Germans then originally? Did anyone check the Red Cross files?

Yes - I think it was quite possibly a French reburial/burial of remains - as in a small coffin [from where and/or by whom/how remains first found/buried is uncertain - no evidence yet of a German burial and why move from such a burial?  Details seem to have been known as a headstone erected at Missy. 

My thoughts are it wouldn't be by the French after the war as the British would have been informed and a burial in a French Communal Cemetery unlikely at that time - so I think probably a wartime burial at Missy, and also probably earlier in the war rather than later when the GRUs had started work] - before the later eventual concentration to a British military cemetery in 1936

Yes - I had a look earlier at ICRC PoW files but couldn't find a Walter Edward BUNN nor a BUNN 6913 - there is a W E BUNN 6710 [1er Norfolk (1st) Officially missing 15/9.  Mrs Bunn, 149 St Peters Street, Lowestoft - but no further details so looks like a missing enquiry rather than a PoW] - always the possibility that 6710 is a mistranscription of 6913, they are sort of close in appearance??? - also make what you will of 15/9 ???  Mrs Bunn's Lowestoft address may help.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4908716/3/2/

Edited 16 February , 2020 by Matlock1418
additions

[hensteadboy]

Thanks so much for the various pieces of information especially his mother's Lowestoft address which ties him in to the Lowestoft War Memorial.  If he was found and buried by the French, could this be civilians bearing in mind the area atound Elouges was occupied by the Germans for most of the war<  It is still interesting that he was buried at Missy with September casualties wjo are where one mightexpect to find them.  Perhaps he died of wounds nearer to the Aisne than to the battlefield of Aug 24?

[AOK4]

22 hours ago, hensteadboy said:

Thanks so much for the various pieces of information especially his mother's Lowestoft address which ties him in to the Lowestoft War Memorial.  If he was found and buried by the French, could this be civilians bearing in mind the area atound Elouges was occupied by the Germans for most of the war<  It is still interesting that he was buried at Missy with September casualties wjo are where one mightexpect to find them.  Perhaps he died of wounds nearer to the Aisne than to the battlefield of Aug 24?

 

I would say the French officials exhumed all German made burials from the wartime and so found this British soldier as well. Normally there would have been a German list of burials (although he may have been unknown).

Date of death may have been the last date he was on roll call. He may have perhaps died later without anyone surviving to confirm his exact date of death.

[charlie2]

6710 and 6913 are two different soldiers according to the MiCs. The ICRC index card was made out on 18.10.1917, presumably 6710 was officially declared missing on 15.9.1917.

 

Charlie

[Matlock1418]

5 hours ago, AOK4 said:

I would say the French officials exhumed all German made burials from the wartime and so found this British soldier as well. Normally there would have been a German list of burials (although he may have been unknown).

I think we are really speculating on where his remains came from / how found prior to burial at Missy.

Though we obviously have slightly different thoughts I think we are probably agreeing on a wartime burial at Missy - but I can't see confirmation of your case that first buried by Germans [during the war]

Or perhaps if on a Line of Communication or at a CCS or hospital - Died of Wounds and buried by British ???  I don't know the movements of his battalion etc..

I just can't see why the French would exhume from a marked grave/burial by Germans, or British for that matter - unless perhaps some later, as yet unknown, military requirement for them to be moved ???

I would think any exhumation & reburial at Missy (if that double scenario occurred) would have been during the war [probably not under German occupation - or am I getting that all wrong if there was a military need???  If under British hands then surely would have tended to be reported to them and therefore why so long before 'concentration'? - would seem likely that the British did not know until later and/or of course perhaps chose not to concentrate from a Communal Cemetery until other recoveries/concentrations/reburials had been already sorted]

Small remains were pretty obviously required to be buried some time later in the war (from where unknown and by persons unknown), and do seem to have been buried by the French [during the war - but not after the war as previously explained above I would have expected any remains to be then be handed over to the British]

Any French records would therefore be very handy - as of course would be any German ones too.

I would think he was perhaps known - as IWGC record he was identified by disc [as we now know these did not have a great history of surviving I might suspect a relatively early recovery of disc - so perhaps by Germans ??? [I'm not so sure as you] or British??? or French ???, and he had a headstone at Missy [but of course we don't know what it read]

It is intriguing.

:-) M

49 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

6710 and 6913 are two different soldiers according to the MiCs. The ICRC index card was made out on 18.10.1917, presumably 6710 was officially declared missing on 15.9.1917.

Was a bit of a speculation on 6710

I had looked at MIC and found 6710 was BUNN, Reginald [and haven't found a PoW (or CWGC) for him - I can't see Ancestry or FMP - is there any SR?]

Yet ICRC from the link was clearly typed BUNN, W. E.  6710

15/9 I too would normally think probably 15 September - but interested to know how you got the card was made out 18.10.17 [not challenging you, just wondering how you got this date - have you another source? - or is there something I should have seen on the card from the link/ICRC site?]

:-) M

[charlie2]

15 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

 

Was a bit of a speculation on 6710

I had looked at MIC and found 6710 was BUNN, Reginald [and haven't found a PoW (or CWGC) for him - I can't see Ancestry or FMP - is there any SR?]

Yet ICRC from the link was clearly typed BUNN, W. E.  6710

15/9 I too would normally think probably 15 September - but interested to know how you got the card was made out 18.10.17 [not challenging you, just wondering how you got this date - have you another source? - or is there something I should have seen on the card from the link/ICRC site?]

:-) M

The date that a card was made out is, in the majority of cases, on the back of the card. If this link doesn‘t work click on the arrow chasing its tail. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4908716/3/2/
I can‘t find a service record for 6710 on Ancestry.

Charlie

[clk]

Hi,

 

On 16/02/2020 at 17:17, Matlock1418 said:

Couldn't find a WD for 1NR before October 1914 - anyone had more luck?

Or an alternative source?

 

I didn't see anything for August/September 1914 at the National Archives either. The best that I came up with are the Brigade HQ and Division HQ (General Staff) diaries. On Ancestry, they start here, and here.

 

Regards

Chris

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

click on the arrow chasing its tail.

Well, well - learnt something new.

Thanks.

:-) M

49 minutes ago, clk said:

I didn't see anything for August/September 1914 at the National Archives either. The best that I came up with are the Brigade HQ and Division HQ (General Staff) diaries. On Ancestry, they start here, and here.

Thanks for looking

:-) M

[PRC]

I’ll split this into two parts to stop you from getting brain-fried.

 

I visited the memorial chapel in St Margarets, Lowestoft a few years back to photograph some of the panels on behalf of a regimental website. Even though it was south of the border I couldn’t resist the urge to take pictures of all of the panels and being an insatiable curiosity child, find out a bit more about the names listed there. For those name on the panels I was not there to photograph, the research was quite basic and template, and didn’t extend to checking for service records and civil records – from memory there are c700+ names remembered there.

 

As a 1st Norfolk man involved in the action at Elouges, my write up for W.E. Bunn includes a lengthy piece on the battalion involvement on the day – it’s taken from another webpage which in turn has cribbed parts from the official regimental history.

 

(Click on the photo link to see it)

St Margaret Lowestoft War Memorial Chapel -  Brown to Burgess by Moominpappa06, on Flickr

Since then I been updating my original write up as and when I found pictures in the local press – one of the Lowestoft papers and a Norwich title shared the same owners, so pictures of Lowestoft men frequently turn up.

 

Seeing this thread however prompted me to take another look at Walter. I had to wait until I could visit the library to confirm the service records for Walter Edward Bunn held on Ancestry and FindMyPast related to this man. On FindMyPast they show up twice – the core dated 1902 and then another set dated 1904 which has a considerable overlap but has about 6 to 8 unique pages.

 

1902 was him joining a Volunteer Battalion, 1904 the switch to the Regular Army.

 

One of the pages, attached , is a letter that dates from 1922 which has been fire damaged but seems to relate to the discovery of his grave.

 

I don’t know if it’s a complete co-incidence but the service number on the ICRC card for Walter Edward Bunn – 6710 – actually relates to a Reginald Bunn, 1st Norfolks, who landed in France on the 26th August 1914. Reginald went on to to be Sapper 309703 and WR/73, Royal Engineers.

 

Although Reginald arrived in France a couple of days after Walter is believed to have died, when I searched the British Newspaper Archive, I actually found his name appearing in the official casualty list first. In a list said to be dated 3rd October 1914 that appeared in the edition of the Birmingham Daily Post dated 17th November 1914 (and others), Bunn 6710 R, Norfolk Regiment, is recorded as missing.

 

Looking at the first ten Norfolk Regiment men, (ex. Bunn) recorded as Missing in the same list:-

 

BANCALARI, 6744, Lnc.-segt W. (CWGC has him died 14/09/14, SDGW KiA).

BERMINGHAM, 6597, Pte. W. (CWGC has him died 15/09/14, SDGW KiA).

(Note – found at the same churchyard as Private 6913 W. Bunn)

BETTS, 8826, Pte. T  (No match on CWGC). MiC has him died 22/05/15 = but CWGC has that individual as 8226 ! He was originally buried Ohrdruf PoW Camp, now concentrated to Niederzwehren, Kassel. ICRC file has him captured 14/09/14 but doesn’t state a service number.

BLYTH, 6434, Pte. W.  Would eventually be KiA on the 02/06/16. (SDGW & CWGC).

BRAWN, 7570, Sergt. H. (CWGC has him died 14/09/14, SDGW KiA).

BRUCE, 8761, Pte. R. (CWGC has him died 15/09/14, SDGW KiA).

BRUNNING, 6289, Corpl. J. (CWGC has him died 14/09/14, SDGW KiA).

(Note – found at the same churchyard as Private 6913 W. Bunn)

BUTTON, 7259, Pte. D. (No match on CWGC). MiC shows subsequent service with the 2nd Home Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment and the Labour Corps.

CAMPLING, 6354, Pte. G. No obvious match MiC, CWGC or SDGW.

CHAPLIN, 7337, Pte. W. (CWGC has him died 14/09/14, SDGW KiA).

 

Which does indeed raise the possibility that Walter Bunn was alive up until the 14th/15th September 1914,  and this explains why he is buried in the Aisne area. The potential confusion arises from the wrong number being used in the official reports and may be reflected in why this number was communicated to the ICRC.

 

Copy of the first CWGC Concentration Report attached, which gives food for thought.

 

The casualty list dated 9th February 1915 which appear in the edition of The Scotsman newspaper, dated Saturday February 13, 1915, included 6710 R. Bunn, Norfolk Regiment, under the heading “Previously reported missing, now rejoined.” There are five other Norfolks listed including 7259 D. Button.

 

The casualty list dated 21st June 1915 in the edition of The Belfast News-letter (and others), dated July 8, 1915, seems to be the first official mention of 6913 Bunn W. He appears under the heading “Missing”, which would seem to imply this was his first appearance. The other Norfolk Regiment man in the same category is BALDRY, 6937, Pte. C.  That soldier is on CWGC as died 24th August 1914, and was originally buried at Thulin New Communal Cemetery and is now at Cement House Cemetery, Langemarck. I believe Thulin was then in German hands.

 

Going back to Walter and that Concentration Report, I guess we will never know if that date was actually on the headstone when the Graves Registration Unit originally found it, or was it what the British Army records had “corrected” it to by the time in 1936 it was decided to move them.

 

Alternatively it may simply be that when they accounted for Reginald they realised that Walter was the man who was missing.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Matlock1418]

14 hours ago, PRC said:

 

Nice one!

Interesting that the discovery by the French [presumably] of a "grave" [suggesting a formal burial (not certain) by (unknown)] and re-burial by the French at Missy [apparently - as in a small state coffin in a French communal cemetery] is reported in 1922 - I would have thought remains would have been reported to the British for their teams to deal with [then again I think by 1922 the British effort was struggling as I think the original big effort had rather much run out of steam by that date]

Then, as per CWGC, concentrated/moved again in 1936 to Buzancy Military Cemetery - presumably to aid maintenance of the graves by CWGC

My he, and the other lads, now rest in peace.

[PRC]

Looking at Walter in a bit more detail. (Parts in italics and blue are from his service record).

 

6913 Walter Edward Bunn has no additional information on CWGC. SDGW has him as born Kessingland, Lowestoft and enlisted Norwich.

 

He is not remembered on either the memorial in the churchyard or in the church itself at Kessingland.

 

The only likely birth recorded in Suffolk was that of a Walter Edward Bunn, mothers’ maiden name Anguish, which was recorded in the Mutford District in Q3 1882. Mutford Civil Registration District included the Civil Parishes of both Lowestoft and Kessingland.

 

His Army Service record records him as 20 and born Lowestoft when he joined the 3rd Volunteer Company of the Norfolk Regiment on the 21 January 1902.On his discharge in August 1902 he was 20 years and 6 months. When he enlisted in May 1904 he was 21 years and 11 months. When he was discharged in May 1907 he was 24 years and 11 months.

 

Possible siblings – all Mutford District with mothers maiden name Anguish.

Frederick Arthur Bunn, Q2 1891.

May Blanch Bunn, Q3 1895.

Could well be others that don’t have the mothers’ maiden name (correctly) transcribed.

 

Most likely marriage of parents was that of a Charles Bunn to an Anna Anguish in the Mutford District in Q4 1879.

 

On the 1891 Census of England & Wales the 9 year old Walter Bunn, born Pakefield, Suffolk, (also part of the Mutford Civil Registration District), was recorded living at 2 Muckleburgh Cottages, Mill Road, Pakefield. This was the household of his parents Charles, (aged 32, General Labourer, born Pakefield) and Anna (27, born Pakefield). Their other children are Frank, (7), Monnato(?), (5), Florence, (4) and Frederick, (1 months) – all born Pakefield.

 

On the 1901 Census of England & Wales the Bunn family were recorded at 10 Wellington Cottages, Lowestoft. As well as parents Charles (41) and Anna, (37, now shown as born Oulton, Suffolk), the children living with them were Walter, (19, Labourer, born Pakefield), Frank, (17, Shoemaker), Martin, (15, Fisherman, born Kirkley, Suffolk),  Florence, (13), Fred, (10) and Benjamin, (7). Frank, Florence, Fred and Benjamin were all born Pakefield).

 

Walter joined the 3rd Volunteer Company of the Norfolk Regiment on the 21 January 1902 at Norwich, having previously served with the 2nd Volunteer Battalion, Norfolk Regiment. This was a 1 year Short Service Attestation and there is a specific question about him joining for one year unless the War in South Africa lasted longer.  He gave his trade then as Blacksmith, although he had not served an apprenticeship. He was then single. He was given service number 6865.

 

He was discharged on the 1st August 1902 at Norwich on arrival from South Africa. He was described then as 20 years and 6 months old, was 5 feet 4 and three quarter inches tall, with a fair complexion, blue eyes and fair hair.His conduct was rated “Very Good”. He qualified for the Kings South Africa Medal with clasps, Transvaal, Orange Free State and Cape Colony. (One statement of service shows it as the Queens South Africa Medal).

 

The Army Service numbers site shows service number 6913 was issued by the Regular Army Battalions of the Norfolk Regiment between the 4th February 1904, (6838) and the 30th September 1905, (7058). That can be a narrowed a small bit – there are surviving service papers for 6858 Herbert Barnes that shows he enlisted on the 17th February 1904.

 

Walter enlisted again on the 25th May 1904, (26th on some of the pages) on a 12 year term, three in the colours and nine in reserve. He was recorded then as 21 years and 11 months old, was 5 feet 4 and five eigths tall and weighed 123lbs. He states he was born Kessingland, Suffolk. He gives his trade as Farrier. Although he attested for General Service he did state a preference for the Norfolk Regiment where he had friends and had previously seen service in South Africa. He was posted to the Norfolk Regiment and received service number 6913.  His next of kin was his father Charles Bunn of “10 Welton Cottages Clapham Road” The next of kin on his Statement of Service gets a bit messy as it has been amended a number of times. I believe it originally read Father Charles Bunn, Brother Frank, Younger (Brothers) Monatter, Frederick & Benjamin, and give the address as 10 Wellington Cottage, Clapham Road, Lowestoft for all of them. It’s then amended to 95 Clapham Road, Lowestoft and 114 ??(illegible)  which possibly relates to a wife.

 

He served at home from the 25/26th May 1904 to the 11th October 1905, and then in South Africa from the 12th October 1905 to the 4th March 1907. Back in the UK on the 5th March 1907, (or at least on his way there), he would remain there until discharged.

 

He was discharged to the 1st Class Army Reserve on the 25th May 1907, having served 3 years – 2 years and 2 months of which were as “Silverman” in the Officers Mess. He was rated Smart and Keen with no instances of drunkenness. He was then 24 years and 11 months old, took a 21 and a half inch helmet and a 7-4 size boot. He was recorded as having a fresh complexion, light grey eyes and light brown hair. He had a scar over right eyebrow. His intended place of residence was Durham House, Trafalgar Street, Lowestoft.

 

On the 1911 Census of England and Wales is a 30 year old Walter Edward Bunn, a bricklayers labourer, born Kessingland, Suffolk, who was recorded as the married head of the household at 11 Cuba Street, Millwall, Poplar, London. He lives there with his wife of 6 years, Florence Ethel, (aged 28, born Lowestoft). The couple have had 4 children, all still alive and living with them.

 

They were Walter Edward, (6), Florence Ethel, (3), May Hilda, (3) and Ada Gertrude, (2) – all born Lowestoft. The marriage of a Walter Edward Bunn to a Florence Ethel Moore was recorded in the Mutford District in Q2 of 1905.

 

The marriage to a Florence Ethel Moore, (spinster), took place at St Margarets Church, Lowestoft, on the 25th April 1905. Children listed on the service record are:

 Walter Edward Bunn, born Lowestoft, 09/02/05

May Hilda Bunn, born Lowestoft, 26/11/07

Florence Ethel Bunn, born Lowestoft, 27/11/07, (guess born after midnight!)

Ada Gertrude Bunn, born Lowestoft, 15/11/08.

 

And according to his MiC, the person who applied for his 1914 Star in 1919 was a Mrs F. Bunn, of 25 Hill Road, Lowestoft. The initial F. doesn’t relate to his mothers first name, (Anna) or even the social convention of going by the husbands first name, Mrs Charles Bunn or Mrs. C. Bunn, so that application would seem to come from the wife.

 

A register update on civil employment or possibly a reference application, (fire damage to the relevant parts of the form makes it difficult to work out), dated 24th July 1912 for 6913 Private W.E. Bunn repeats the previous character assessments but states that he is married with three children and living at 11 Cuba Street, Millwall.

 

However the civil records show the most likely death of Ada G. Bunn, aged 5, was recorded in the Stepney District of London in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1914.

 

Between 1911 and 1915 there are children whoses births are registered in both the Mutford District and the Poplar District with the surname Bunn, mothers’ maiden name Moore, so all, some or none could be additional children of Walter and Florence.

 

There is no obvious match for this Walter, born Kessingland, on earlier censuses.

 

There is no obvious match for the parents Charles and Anna Bunn on the 1911 Census.  Their two youngest children, Fred, (20) and “Benny”, (17), were recorded in the household of their married sister, Florence King, at 2 Wellington Cottages, Clapham Road, Lowestoft. However looking at the address where Charles and Anna were living in 1901, 7 Wellington Cottages, (Clapham Road), Lowestoft, one of the residents is a boarder, the 49 year old widower Charles Bunn, a Marine Engine Driver with the Great Eastern Railway, born Kessingland.

 

Unfortunately some papers relating to Private 17097 Ed Bunn have got mixed in, so it’s difficult to know for sure whether the undated and fire-damaged letter from a Mrs F. Bunn relates to him or to Walter. It’s in connection with a pension and seems to state her husband has been missing since September “15”*. She was sending her marriage certificate and those of two of the children.

(Private 17097 Edward Bunn. 7th Battalion, Norfolk Regiment, is on CWGC as KiA on the 30th November 1917.  His body was recovered from the battlefield in September 1919).

(*Is that September 15th 1914, which ties in with those other burials alongside Walter, or September 1915 – relevant page attached. A date stamp that appears to read 18 Aug. 1915 has come through from the other side – if it relates then that rules out September 1915.).

 

An entry on the statement of services for Walter Bunn shows that he is posted missing from the 24th August 1914 but this only relates to his wife being sent notification on the 23rd June 1915. That ties in with the casualty list dated 21st June 1915 referenced in my first post.

 

The notification of a Pension Award, dated 31st January 1916 and with effect from the 24th January 1916, covered Walters’ widow and three children. Walter is still shown as “reported missing” in the letter. Only in March 1916 is there a formal decision that he is to be treated for official purposes as having died on the 24th August 1914.

 

A memo between the War Office and the Infantry Records Office at Warley dated 8th June 1916 relating to personal effects and medals shows his widow, Mrs. F.E. Bunn, living at 25 Till Road, Lowestoft.

 

A memo between the Regimental Paymaster and the Infantry Records office received in the Records Office on the 26th July 1916 was sent with the address of Mrs F Bunn shown as 149 St Peters Street, Lowestoft. It was amended and returned with the address as 95 Clapham Road, Lowestoft.

 

Florence, then living at 25 Till Road, Lowestoft, completed Forn W.5080 towards the end of 1919. The declaration section has been burnt away but it was sent out with the date 12th September 1919. The form asks for details of those relatives still alive. She responds:-

Wife of the Soldier. Florence Ethel Bunn, 25 Till Road.

Children of the Soldier.

Walter Edward Bunn, Feb 9 1905

May Hilda Bunn, Nov. 27 1907

Florence Ethel Bunn, Nov. 27 1907.

Father of the Soldier: Charles Bunn, Wellington Cotts, Clapham ??, Lowes????

Mother of the Soldier: Deceased.

Brother of the Soldier – Full Blood: ?. Bunn, aged 34, (no address shown)

Sister of the Soldier – Full Bood: ?. King, sister married, aged 30, (no address shown).

Sections for Half Blood Brother and Sister left blank.

 

In a follow on letter to the 1916 declaration of his death, a letter to Mrs F.E. Bunn, of ?5, Till Road, Lowestoft from the Infantry Records Office at Warley dated 29th March 1922 records that the grave of Walter had been found while carrying out exhumations and that the body was re-buried at MISSY S./AISNE Communal Cemetery about 4 miles E. of SOISSONS.

 

On 19/02/2020 at 14:09, hensteadboy said:

Thanks so much for the various pieces of information especially his mother's Lowestoft address which ties him in to the Lowestoft War Memorial.

 

His mother had deceased prior to the start of April 1911 and so I believe the enquiry has come from Walters' wife.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 22 February , 2020 by PRC
Add attachment

[Matlock1418]

On 16/02/2020 at 16:24, hensteadboy said:

If he was killed on Aug 24 1914 as sources would suggest

Think it was a case of in 1916 - for official purposes [and many subsequent documents are likely to have picked up on this Aug. 24 1914 date] - as Peter identified in post #18

• "The Army Council has decided that this soldier is to be regarded for official purposes as having died on or since 24th August 1914" [my emphasis in bold]

So the prospect of him dying later (and elsewhere) still remains a real possibility - and possible explanation for the rather distant from Elouges discovery of his remains near/at Missy

Courtesy of Ancestry

 

Edited 25 February , 2020 by Matlock1418

[rob carman]

On 22/02/2020 at 17:25, PRC said:

Walter joined the 3rd Volunteer Company of the Norfolk Regiment on the 21 January 1902 at Norwich, having previously served with the 2nd Volunteer Battalion, Norfolk Regiment. This was a 1 year Short Service Attestation and there is a specific question about him joining for one year unless the War in South Africa lasted longer.  He gave his trade then as Blacksmith, although he had not served an apprenticeship. He was then single. He was given service number 6865.

 

He was discharged on the 1st August 1902 at Norwich on arrival from South Africa. He was described then as 20 years and 6 months old, was 5 feet 4 and three quarter inches tall, with a fair complexion, blue eyes and fair hair.His conduct was rated “Very Good”. He qualified for the Kings South Africa Medal with clasps, Transvaal, Orange Free State and Cape Colony. (One statement of service shows it as the Queens South Africa Medal).

 

I would like to know when Bunn enlisted in 2 Vol Bn or what his 2VB number was.  Can anybody help please.  It would help me sort out if he joined 2 VB simply to volunteer for service in South Africa with 3 Volunteer Service Coy, Norfolk Regiment. I suspect this was quite common but so far have no definite info.

 

The Norfolk VB sent three drafts out to South Africa.  In addition to any VB number, the men each received a regular Norfolk Regiment number.  As best I can tell the number ranges were:

 

1 VSC number range was 5386-5612 but 5617 arrived late but before 2 VSC.  Embarked 11 Feb 1900, home May 1901.

 

2 VSC number range was 6753-6866 but 3 VSC man Bunn was numbered 6865, a bit out of range, In theater 16 March 1900 to May 1902. Bunn’s 6913 number was given on transferring to the regulars. 

 

3 VSC number range was 6868-6928.  March 1902 to August 1902.

 

Confusingly, men that did two tours in a Norfolk VSC were given new numbers for their second tour.

[PRC]

12 hours ago, rob carman said:

I would like to know when Bunn enlisted in 2 Vol Bn or what his 2VB number was.  Can anybody help please.  It would help me sort out if he joined 2 VB simply to volunteer for service in South Africa with 3 Volunteer Service Coy, Norfolk Regiment. I suspect this was quite common but so far have no definite info.

 

Had a good look through the paperwork sourced from FMP and can't see anything that helps - presumably as it was a Volunteer Battalion any surviving paperwork will be held at the county archive. It's pure speculation but as he enlisted at the end of January 1902, got out to South Africa, saw enough action to qualify for four clasps and was back by the UK by the 1st August, he was not a raw recruit with no experience.

12 hours ago, rob carman said:

2 VSC number range was 6753-6866 but 3 VSC man Bunn was numbered 6865, a bit out of range, In theater 16 March 1900 to May 1902. Bunn’s 6913 number was given on transferring to the regulars. 

 

3 VSC number range was 6868-6928.  March 1902 to August 1902.

 

Confusingly, men that did two tours in a Norfolk VSC were given new numbers for their second tour.

 

Would the clasp awards be a route to confirming which group he was part of. Service number wise he should be in draft 2, but end of period sounds more like draft 3.

6865 relates to his short service attestation with the Regulars in 1902.

6913 relates to his 12 year attestation in 1904.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[rob carman]

3 hours ago, PRC said:

Would the clasp awards be a route to confirming which group he was part of.

 

I had not thought of that.  I'll give it a bash.  Rob.

[rob carman]

Bunn was 3 VSC.  All 3 VSC men received the same 4 clasps.  His number in the roll was changed from 6865 to 6925.

 

It may be a coincidence but both of his numbers are very close to the end of their respective ranges.

 

Rob.

[Joe Thompson]

Listed here https://ourfallen.lowestoftoldandnow.org/excel?combine=Bunn