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German Mess Tin lid stamped 4JB 2B 3C - help in identification


Mill Road

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A couple of years ago I found this german mess tin lid somewhere near Verdun. Who can help me in identifying Germanmesstinlid.jpg.2948be30a3ead74c938000974ba33d70.jpgwhich unit this soldier belonged to and where the unit fought?

There are even some initials engraved: R.M. Can these be traced back to the actual soldiers name?

Thanks for helping out!

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good morning,

the stamp are for the :

Königlich Bayerisches 4. Infanterie-Regiment „König Wilhelm von Württemberg

2nd Battalion

3rd 8th Company

history :

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königlich_Bayerisches_4._Infanterie-Regiment_„König_Wilhelm_von_Württemberg“

1915 : Eparges (Meuse)

1916 : Fort de Souville (north to Verdun)

1917 : Roclincourt (north to Arras) & East front  (Riga) - return in France (Reims)

regards

michel

Edited by battle of loos
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One problem: the 3rd company belongs to the 1st battalion...

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Good evening
I didn't pay attention to this detail.
It must certainly be the 8th Battalion.
A little stroke of a soft toothbrush on the marking will confirm this.
Personally, I use chalk on the markings to make them stand out clearly and it's not irremediable for the object.

michel

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10 hours ago, Mill Road said:

There are even some initials engraved: R.M. Can these be traced back to the actual soldiers name?

You could look for service records (available on Ancestry) for men with those initials. It's a Bavarian unit so documents should survive. If this "RM" died, then he may also be listed in the regimental history's list of dead.

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Impressive ! And way better than my eyesight would have brought me. I now see that the stamping reads: 4 JR 2B 8C (see next foto)

The search continues for the soldier with the initials R.M.

 

I found the lid in the 1990's on the slopes of Vaux Chapitre leading into the Souville schlucht. Great to see how this ties in with the archives. I have a small number of these stamped finds lying around, will post them in the near future to hear more about them.   

Thanks for your help BattleofLoos, AOK4, Knittinganddeath and Charlie2 !!

 

 

 

Mess tin lid detail.jpg

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1 hour ago, Mill Road said:

The search continues for the soldier with the initials R.M.

The only RM I can find in the No.8 Company rolls is Richard Meinhard, who didn‘t join the Company till June 1918 at which time the Regiment was on the Somme. Perhaps @knittinganddeath or @AOK4 can check that I haven‘t overlooked anyone on the attached.

Charlie

Image Courtesy of Ancestry

 

IMG_5616.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Mill Road said:

And the initials in more detailGermanmesstinliddetail.jpg.26de6bc8451d9833fea3b560432e46c4.jpg

I‘m not sure that the first initial is an R it could also be a K

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2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

I‘m not sure that the first initial is an R it could also be a K

Or the man could have used another first name than the real first name. Or the lid could have arrived there after the war (PoW). Another possibility is that the piece was used by some other soldier from a different unit. I have in my possession a belt, marked by a Saxon regiment, but with a Bavarian buckle, found as such during ground works.

Jan

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Thanks Charlie2 for the Ancestry extract and AOK4 for sharing more options.

From where the lid was found I can almost certainly rule out the idea of PoW as it contains a bullet hole. It was found under an uprooted tree, in the middle of Vaux Chapitre on the slope facing the Souville nase, therefore my guess is that it landed there during the fighting for the Souville nase in the second half of 1916. 

Curious that no other R.M. (I am certain it the first letter is an R) can be traced thusfar, I was hoping for a relatively quick solution.

I will look for another stamped/engraved item and post it.

Thanks sofar !!

 

ps Jan; like the story of the Saxon belt, where was it unearthed?

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2 hours ago, Mill Road said:

ps Jan; like the story of the Saxon belt, where was it unearthed?

Near Polderhoek Chateau (Geluveld), where my grandparents farmed for many years.

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On 12/07/2024 at 13:11, AOK4 said:

Near Polderhoek Chateau (Geluveld), where my grandparents farmed for many years.

I have been there a number times, also with G. DeJonghe :-). Interesting site from early in the war right upto the end of 1917. Now wonder you got interested in history as it is litteraly in your backyard.  

All the best, Peter

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11 hours ago, Mill Road said:

I have been there a number times, also with G. DeJonghe :-). Interesting site from early in the war right upto the end of 1917. Now wonder you got interested in history as it is litteraly in your backyard.  

All the best, Peter

I know Gilbert as well, of course.

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