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Remembered Today:

The whereabouts of the 3rd Division of Naval Marines in Yser area June -July 1917


FionaBam

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Can anyone help me  find  the  location of German Marine Corps 3rd Division in June 1917 ?

Knowing that they were in Flanders and supporting the 1st & 2nd MC Divisions,  the 3rd MC Division  must have been close by .

I am drawing upon the great work done by Ian Jones in Sept 2020, and the super maps , diagrams and photos within his post,  link below

https://www.greatwarforum.org/blogs/entry/2696-xv-corps-heavy-artillery-royal-naval-sieige-guns/

I reckon the diagram I am attaching copyright to Ian Jones, could well have originally  shown more of the German Army Divisions and their locations, prior to Ian's edit. 

I would like to see that extended version and/or any other map showing  the  whereabouts of the 3rd Division of  Marine  Corps .

 

 

@ianjonesncl  Hope you dont mind me  drawing on all your work.Its so helpful for me.

@KizmeRD 

Edit  Oops.. here is the Map ! 

Diagram Situation June 1917 Yser area query Marine Corps Divisions locations from GWF post by Ian Jones.PNG

Edited by FionaBam
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3 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

Can anyone help me  find  the  location of German Marine Corps 3rd Division in June 1917 ?

Knowing that they were in Flanders and supporting the 1st & 2nd MC Divisions,  the 3rd MC Division  must have been close by .

I am drawing upon the great work done by Ian Jones in Sept 2020, and the super maps , diagrams and photos within his post,  link below

https://www.greatwarforum.org/blogs/entry/2696-xv-corps-heavy-artillery-royal-naval-sieige-guns/

I reckon the diagram I am attaching copyright to Ian Jones, could well have originally  shown more of the German Army Divisions and their locations, prior to Ian's edit. 

I would like to see that extended version and/or any other map showing  the  whereabouts of the 3rd Division of  Marine  Corps .

@ianjonesncl  Hope you dont mind me  drawing on all your work.Its so helpful for me.

Fiona

The diagram is taken from Cartographie première guerre mondiale 1914-1918 - 01 aout 1914 (carto1418.fr)

I can not take credit for it.

Ian

 

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Ian - Wow that's perfect! Thank you !am looking at it for  June 1917 and it shows " Naval Corps" (German )  all in one red  bubble .

Sadly not individual MC  Divisions but I'll explore further

Its  a fabulous website ! Sorry but didnt know where your maps originated or didnt spot your Credit on your post .

Cheers

Fiona 

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The component infantry regiments of the 3.Marine Division - Marine Infanterie Regiments 1, 2 & 3 took over the frontline on 2nd June as follows:

MIR 2 - Dünen Sector (D1, D2 etc on the attached map.

MIR 1 - Polder Sector (P1, P2 etc)

MIR 3 - Lombardzijde Sector (L1, L2 etc)

https://dfg-viewer.de/show?tx_dlf[double]=0&tx_dlf[id]=https%3A%2F%2Fdigital.wlb-stuttgart.de%2Fmets%2Furn%3Anbn%3Ade%3Absz%3A24-digibib-kxp17825809991&tx_dlf[page]=365&cHash=6a437d8d4785a5b3cd1384336ba73c3e
Charlie

 

IMG_5506.jpeg

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50 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

MIR 3 - Lombardzijde Sector (L1, L2

Thank you  Charlie2! This is all fabulous! Such detailed maps and to have the German written source document as well.

Once I am on my laptop, will I be able to progress the map via your link to see where MIR 1,2 and 3 were located through July into August and further on ?

I am looking for where a German cousin of my grandfather was. It could be that Hans was awarded his Iron Cross first class for his actions during Operation Strandfest in July so if you know of any detailed German source material I would really appreciate that .

If Hans was still there in December 1917 then his childhood friend and cousin Freddy would have been flying over his head in RNAS 2 Squadron. 

Thanks again. So pleased  about this .☺️

Cheers

Fiona 

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Just dawned on me ....I have Ancestry.co.uk Worldwide membership ( such a treat ) so could I find Hans' Division there ?

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Fiona

There are more maps at the back of the book, they don‘t always relate to all three regiments. 
Would you like to post Hans‘ surname and Regiment? 
Charlie

 

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Just now, charlie2 said:

Would you like to post Hans‘ surname and Regiment

Certainly.thank you so much .

Hans Albrecht von Coerper. But I dont know his regiment in 3rd Div Mar Corps. Hans was sent there with his regiment the 7th Hussars .

Attached copyright Ancestry. Co.uk

HansAlbrechtVonCoerperGermanMilitaryrecordstatesIR1611916ancestrysnip.PNG.6df6ba0c2d30e671874e60cc50271393.png

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Thank you.

He wasn‘t a Marine Officer, he was the Officer Commanding the 3rd Squadron of Husar Regiment 7 which was the divisional cavalry squadron. HR7 remained an army regiment

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19 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

and Regiment

Sorry had forgotten  and you ll have seen by now ..Escadron / Regiment 3 .

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2 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

HR7 remained an army regiment

Thank you Charlie. Sorry for my confusing things.

But Hans and his Cavalry troops were located with the 3rd Division of Marine Corps ? 

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12 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

But Hans and his Cavalry troops were located with the 3rd Division of Marine Corps ?

Yes, but any information about what he was doing is more likely to be found in the history of Husaren Regiment 7 rather than in a Marine Infanterie Regiment history.:)

Charlie

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2 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

the history of Husaren Regiment 7 rather than in a Marine

Ok right.of course. Thank you.  Have asked Military books website if they have anything on 7th Hussars but not heard back which means I think they haven't- Patrick there is so helpful. 

As for the location of the 7th Hussars whilst attached to 3rd Div Mar Corps - do you have a map showing later on in 1917 please ?....#sodemandingarentI

😔

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2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

The component infantry regiments of the 3.Marine Division - Marine Infanterie Regiments 1, 2 & 3 took over the frontline on 2nd June as follows:

MIR 2 - Dünen Sector (D1, D2 etc on the attached map.

MIR 1 - Polder Sector (P1, P2 etc)

MIR 3 - Lombardzijde Sector (L1, L2 etc)

Seems there were still in that position in August/September 1917

 

German OoB Coast.jpg

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9 minutes ago, RussT said:

Seems there were still in that positi

Thank you Russ. Excellent. 

Cheers 

Fiona 

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37 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

Have asked Military books website if they have anything on 7th Hussars but not heard back which means I think they haven't- Patrick there is so helpful. 

Patrick does have the HR7 regimental history.

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1 hour ago, charlie2 said:

Patrick does have the HR7 regimental history.

Oh my goodness! Thank you!☺️

I dont know how to look for it on his website- only managed 1R 161 with directions 

But I had emailed him. Must try again.

Yey!

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2 hours ago, RussT said:

Seems there were still in that position in August/September 1917

They remained in the area till the end of February 1918.

He was promoted to Fähnrich on 02.01.1915, his Patent (≈Commission) as a Leutnant was announced in the 10th July 1917 issue of the Militär-Wochenblatt, his Patent was backdated to 11.09.1913. He ended the war as a Leutnant.

31 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

I dont know how to look for it on his website

Easy :) Once you have entered the site click on „1.Weltkrieg“ and then on „Bücher nach Einheitennummer“ a grid then appears with numbers in it, click on the number of the Regiment you are looking for and scroll down. 
Charlie

IMG_5507.jpeg

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1 minute ago, charlie2 said:

They remained in the area till the end of February 1918.

That's it then! Freddy was flying over his head on a daily basis weather permitting  .well well   

Much appreciate your help .

Also 

3 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Patent was backdated to 11.09.1913

So he joined up prior to outbreak of war, knowing that war was likely given his father Carl was an Admiral in the German Navy. 

 

5 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

1.Weltkrieg

That is how I found IR 161. But never thought "7" would take me to the Hussars . Never  got the shopping cart to work. I'll try again .

Thank you !

Fiona 

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I’d assume that a single squadron of Hussars would have been used as reconnaissance troops - I can’t see them being held in reserve for a cavalry charge over sodden ground.

MB

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5 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

So he joined up prior to outbreak of war,

I don‘t know when he joined up, he was promoted to Fähnrich from Unteroffizier, his Patent was only backdated for seniority purposes. Maybe @Glenn J can help.

10 minutes ago, FionaBam said:

But never thought "7" would take me to the Hussar

The 7 (or any other number chosen) takes you to any regiment, be it infantry, cavalry, Engineer etc with that number.

Charlie

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Von Coerper may have had a pre-war volunteer year with the 7.HR prior to going off to university. The HQ of the regiment was in Bonn (which wasn’t his hometown).

MB

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6 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

pre-war volunteer 

Ah so he could have been keen. 

Thank you.

Fiona 

P.S. setting the trend for gap years for generations to come .

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All fit young men in Germany at the time had to undergo two years military service before reverting to the reserve (three years for those in cavalry regiments). It was fairly common for those going off to university (with ambitions to become officers) to commit to a ‘freiwillig’ year in the ranks.

Here’s a photo of one such volunteer with the 7th Hussars (an expensive and elite unit)…

MBIMG_2639.png.13a9f602deeb9415a2bbf8220d37d5ab.png

Edited by KizmeRD
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