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Remembered Today:

P.O.W. (Prisoner Of War) Lists.


Bob Davies

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Hello all,

I am looking for some help on this one please.

Is there a way of finding P.O.W.s by regiment name?

The I.C.R.C (International Committee of the  Red Cross) provides a site and personal name search here;

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en

It would be very useful to be able to find a list of men taken prisoner on a certain date, give or take a few days.

One can trawl through the site by name of prisoners in alphabetical order but not by regiment name or date that I can see.

Am I missing something or is it a case of going through the whole lot to weed out what one needs?

For instance I am looking for K.O.Y.L.I. men captured on or around 7th May 1915,

or Leicesters/Sherwood Foresters/ Norfolks men captured on or around 15th September 1916.

Any help anyone can give is appreciated with thanks,

Bob.

 

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Hi Bob,

As you will have seen, very little of the data is indexed by ICRC. As a consequence, ForcesWarRecords saw merit in indexing some of this data, and putting it behind their paywall. I believe that FindMyPast followed suit, too.

I have worked towards a similar goal to you. I looked at the Missing lists that were published in The Times, for a specific battle. The men listed covered the time period 15 September 1914 to 26 September 1914. The trick is to start with an identified POW with a very distinct name. Thereafter, it is akin to the game "Battleships" as you target your searches accordingly.
 

The War Office Casualty Lists can be consulted for free via NLS.
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/144481815

The same data has also been put behind a paywall by ForcesWarRecords/Fold3. Otherwise, they can be accessed via FMP's British Newspaper Archives offering.

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The main casualty lists for the 9th Norfolks in the attack on the Quadrilateral on the 15th September 1916 appeared on page 11 of The Times for November 2nd 1916, which includes a list of the missing. I have to say I've never come across any PoW's of the Norfolks from the attack, but I've also never systematically worked through the Missing in that Casualty List to see if they all turn up on CWGC.  It was on the to do list for this years update of the thread!

Cheers,
Peter

 

The Times p11 Thursday, Nov. 2, 1916 Casualty Listed, Killed, Wounded and Missing.pdf

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8 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Hi Bob,

As you will have seen, very little of the data is indexed by ICRC. As a consequence, ForcesWarRecords saw merit in indexing some of this data, and putting it behind their paywall. I believe that FindMyPast followed suit, too.

I have worked towards a similar goal to you. I looked at the Missing lists that were published in The Times, for a specific battle. The men listed covered the time period 15 September 1914 to 26 September 1914. The trick is to start with an identified POW with a very distinct name. Thereafter, it is akin to the game "Battleships" as you target your searches accordingly.
 

The War Office Casualty Lists can be consulted for free via NLS.
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/144481815

The same data has also been put behind a paywall by ForcesWarRecords/Fold3. Otherwise, they can be accessed via FMP's British Newspaper Archives offering.

Thank you so much for your reply Keith, I too have been playing Battle ships with it. It is a long way around but it is all we have to work from.

Regards,

Bob.

4 minutes ago, PRC said:

The main casualty lists for the 9th Norfolks in the attack on the Quadrilateral on the 15th September 1916 appeared on page 11 of The Times for November 2nd 1916, which includes a list of the missing. I have to say I've never come across any PoW's of the Norfolks from the attack, but I've also never systematically worked through the Missing in that Casualty List to see if they all turn up on CWGC.  It was on the to do list for this years update of the thread!

Cheers,
Peter

 

The Times p11 Thursday, Nov. 2, 1916 Casualty Listed, Killed, Wounded and Missing.pdf 1.05 MB · 0 downloads

Thank you Peter, I believe from the two dates  that I mentioned, most of the men would have been KIA or died of wounds/exposure while in no mans land,

with very little chance of being taken prisoner.

However, there remains hope for these long forgotten men in our eyes.

Regards,

Bob.

 

 

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I agree with Keith. My gf was taken prisoner at Loos on 26/09/1915. He was named in a Times OCL under Lincolnshire Regt - Missing and also in The Lincolnshire Echo 02/11/1915, in a long list of Missing - 8 Bn. Check local papers as well

Brian

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7 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

For instance I am looking for K.O.Y.L.I. men captured on or around 7th May 1915

Findmypast have indexed most ICRC and some great searches can be done.

Limit record set to Prisoners of War 1715-1945 and then put in keyword the date in format eg "27 jul 1916". For Regiment you could try putting in the full name but this can be a bit hit or miss, even with FMP's generally good transcription. But it certainly is a start.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?sourcecategory=armed+forces+%26+conflict&sid=101&keywords="07+may+1915"+&keywordsplace_proximity=5&datasetname=prisoners+of+war+1715-1945&sourcecountry=great+britain

This is a search for 7th May 1915 without putting in a regiment. You will see from this that regiment names are very patchy, particularly for early records.

Do you have a particular name that might give a clue to transcription abreviations that could be used?

Charlie

 

Edited by charlie962
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From my last post my next step would be to look up those men in the Daily Casualty lists,  see if that gives further names, then back to ICRC perhaps....

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12 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

I agree with Keith. My gf was taken prisoner at Loos on 26/09/1915. He was named in a Times OCL under Lincolnshire Regt - Missing and also in The Lincolnshire Echo 02/11/1915, in a long list of Missing - 8 Bn. Check local papers as well

Brian

Thank you Brian and @charlie962,

unfortunately no name or names just the regiment and dates.

A work in progress.

Regards,

Bob.

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11 hours ago, charlie962 said:

From my last post my next step would be to look up those men in the Daily Casualty lists,  see if that gives further names, then back to ICRC perhaps....

Aspey 10005 and Ferguson 917x appear on the ICRC link on fmp that I provided above for captured 8th May 1915 KOYLI at Ypres and appear on same casualty list missing published 23/6/15. I've not checked other names. They are subsequently reported pows.

Heres the list 23/6/15 courtesy Findmypast newspapers Darlington North Star.

North_Star_Darlington_23_June_1915_0005_Clip.jpg.cbd9414a920ee5a185322fb1f2ba8e3a.jpg

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Thank you Charlie,

that is quite a list.

To narrow things down a little I should have put 2nd Battalion K.O.Y.L.I.

Sorry for missing that off.

 

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3 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

Thank you Charlie,

that is quite a list.

To narrow things down a little I should have put 2nd Battalion K.O.Y.L.I.

Sorry for missing that off.

 

Ah. These ICRC men are mostly 1st Bn I suspect !

But perhaps not...

Hayward 13000 is a 2nd Bn man and his ICRC card is here and suggests also captured 8/5/15 but at Sonnebeck.

gbm_icrc_c_g1_e_15_01_0040_3499_0.jpg.860442b73d45fb73a003a8b2173de846.jpg

Lancashire Daily Post 19/6/15 has a very long list of 2nd Bn* men reported missing  incl Hayward.

*EDIT- list is headed 2KORLR not 2KOYLI !

 

Hope that gives you ideas to follow up ?

Edited by charlie962
Correction of cas list attributed regiment
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4 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Ah. These ICRC men are mostly 1st Bn I suspect !

But perhaps not...

Hayward 13000 is a 2nd Bn man and his ICRC card is here and suggests also captured 8/5/15 but at Sonnebeck.

gbm_icrc_c_g1_e_15_01_0040_3499_0.jpg.860442b73d45fb73a003a8b2173de846.jpg

Lancashire Daily Post 19/6/15 has a very long list of 2nd Bn men reported missing  incl Hayward.

 

Hope that gives you ideas to follow up ?

Thank you Charlie, your suggestions are very much appreciated,

yes that has put me on the right track.

I may have to look at FMP. I have ancestry but that seems lacking in a lot of areas.

Regards,

Bob.

 

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2 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

may have to look at FMP. I have ancestry but that seems lacking in a lot of areas.

Fmps indexing of ICRC is unique and although not perfect, and a transcription of records that are imperfect, it is hugely helpul for pow research by regiment.

Charlie

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1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

Thank you Charlie,

that is quite a list.

To narrow things down a little I should have put 2nd Battalion K.O.Y.L.I.

Sorry for missing that off.

 

Following on from Charlie's post about the Daily Post 19/06/1915 there is also a large list of Missing - 2 Bn KOYLI in the Darlington North Star 19/06/1915.

 

Brian

Edited by brianmorris547
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24 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said:

Following on from Charlie's post about the Daily Post 19/06/1915 there is also a large list of Missing - 2 Bn KOYLI in the Darlington North Star 19/06/1915.

 

Brian

Thank you Brian,

that list will probably be them.

From the 13th Infantry Brigade WD, which I only just looked at, gives a better account of the attack.

I will have to study it a bit closer as the writing is hard reading but by the sound of it they were attacking into a hail of rifle and MG fire, then getting caught up on the wire, with their left and right flank supports enduring the same.

By the sound of it there would not be a hope to get out, especially if wounded.

I would be surprised if any were taken prisoner.

Regards,

Bob.

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Hayward 13000 that I quoted above as 2KOYLI (per ICRC) appears to be 2 KORL instead, according to medal rolls etc !

The Casualty Listing 19/6/15 I referred to is 2KORLR not 2KOYLI - my mistake

Edited by charlie962
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And the Casualty List I referred to in the Darlington North Star 19/06/1916 page 5 is 2 Northumberland Fusiliers. I am certain that when I read it yesterday it was 2 KOYLI. Will do some checking.

Brian

EDIT From the North Star (Darlington) 15/06/1915. I will look for more. It is not the list I saw yesterday. I will try some other papers.

BNL via FMP

North_Star_Darlington_15_June_1915_0005.jpg

Edited by brianmorris547
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3 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

EDIT From the North Star (Darlington) 15/06/1915.

Also in the edition of The Times on the same day.

Just a thought - @Bob Davies, do you have access to The Times Digital Archive? Some local library services sign up to Gales Resources which includes it. The additional bonus is that you can then usually access it from any device, so you don't have to be in a Library to use it.

Cheers,
Peter

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47 minutes ago, PRC said:

Some local library services sign up t

..to Findmypast also

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13 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

And the Casualty List I referred to in the Darlington North Star 19/06/1916 page 5 is 2 Northumberland Fusiliers. I am certain that when I read it yesterday it was 2 KOYLI. Will do some checking.

Brian

EDIT From the North Star (Darlington) 15/06/1915. I will look for more. It is not the list I saw yesterday. I will try some other papers.

BNL via FMP

North_Star_Darlington_15_June_1915_0005.jpg

Thank you Brian, that gives me a chance now:thumbsup:

9 hours ago, PRC said:

Also in the edition of The Times on the same day.

Just a thought - @Bob Davies, do you have access to The Times Digital Archive? Some local library services sign up to Gales Resources which includes it. The additional bonus is that you can then usually access it from any device, so you don't have to be in a Library to use it.

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you Peter,

also thanks to @charlie962, loads of good tips from everyone, much appreciated.

Regards,

Bob.

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Bob

The War Office Casualty Lists (via FMP) for late 1918 show returned POWs by Regiment. My gf is on this page under Lincolns.

WOCL 13/12/1918  FMP

Brian

WOCL 13121918.jpg

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On 18/05/2024 at 15:29, brianmorris547 said:

Bob

The War Office Casualty Lists (via FMP) for late 1918 show returned POWs by Regiment. My gf is on this page under Lincolns.

WOCL 13/12/1918  FMP

Brian

WOCL 13121918.jpg

Thank you Brian,

Your help is very much appreciated here.

I have possibly found one soldier so far. K.O.Y.L.I.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/224/2093814/British and Commonwealth/Military/Wilson

I need to investigate further but I post this here so I don't loose him.

 

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