Missing MIC's

[roughdiamond]

Hi Folks

Doing a thing in my quiet time of listing Men SAD using different sources and listing them by: -

Offence, Name, No, Rank, Age, Regt/Corps, Offence, Execution Date, PRO Ref, Place of Burial/Commemoration with Grave ref, Headstone Inscription, NOK and finally any notes referring to Execution on their MIC, so far I'm unable to find some MIC's on Ancestry and I'm wondering if anyone can check with fresh eyes, they are: -

COWARDICE

2479 Pte Fatoma, W. African Regt

15251 Pte George Henry Lowton and 31821 Pte Berty McCubbin, both 17th Notts & Derby's and Executed together.

12772 Pte Albert Botfield, 9th South Staffs

 

DESERTION

5231 Pte James Briggs, 2nd Border Regt

9722 Pte Ernest Fellows, 3rd Worcs. The only one of the 5 men of that Regt shot together I can't find a MIC for.

B/21000 Cpl G Lewis, 12th HLI

21161 Pte Harry Martin, 9th Essex

2408 Pte William Roberts, 4th Royal Fusiliers

R/19333 Rfn Edward A Card, 20th KRRC

3057 Pte Henry Palmer, 1/5th Northumberland Fusiliers

2/Lt Eric Skeffington Poole 11th W/Yorkshire

Sub/Lt Edwin L A Dyett Nelson Bn RND

G/12341 Pte William Bowerman, 1st E. Surrey

70715 Pte William Robinson 1st Notts & Derby

1529 Pte Samuel H Cunnington, 2nd Warwicks

16120 Pte John W Fryer, 12th E. Surrey

26248 Pre J Wishard, 7th R. Inniskilling Fus

474371 Rfn Walter Yeoman, 1/12th R. Fus

G/10474 Pte Robert Gillis Pattison, 7th E. Surrey

17402 Pte Frederick Broadrick, 11th Warwicks

683458 Pte Frederick Loader, 1/22nd R. Fus

R/27615 Rfn John J Hyde, 10th KRRC

200757 Pte Charles Britton, 1/5th Warwicks

R/24441 Rfn Frank W Cheeseman, 18th KRRC

A/201225 Rfn Thomas Donovan, 16th KRRC

8793 Pte John Taylor, 2nd S. Staffs

G/1533 Pte Thomas Hawkins, 7th R. W. Surrey

L/11661 Pte Arthur H Westwood, 8th E. Surrey

200945 Pte Joseph Bateman, 2nd S. Staffs

13612 Pte Frank O'Neill, 1st Notts & Derby

202893 Pte George Ainley, 1/4th KOYLI

10686 Pte Benjamin O'Connell, 1st Irish Guards

4519 Pte Harry Hendricks, 2nd Leinster

15161 Pte Patrick Murphy, 47th Bn MGC

204232 Pte Robert Young, 11th Worcs

38332 Pte David Gibson, 12th R. Scots

 

MURDER

2/Lt John H Patterson, 3rd Essex (Attd 1st)

A/2600 Pte Dezari Barama, Gold Coast Regt

 

QUITTING POST

1/9804 Pte Thomas Davis, 1st R. Munster Fus

23972 Cpl Jesse Wilton, 15th Notts & Derby

 

SLEEPING AT POST

10912 Pte Robert Burton, 10555 Thomas Downing, both 6th S. Lancs, the only Men Executed for Sleeping at Post.

 

MURDER

253617 Gnr Frank O Willis, 50th TMB, RFA 

50079 Pte Joseph Chandler, 10th Lincs

(Both Men above post War for Murder, may have no War Service)

Thanks for any help

 

Sam

Edited 11 May , 2024 by roughdiamond

[corisande]

Looks like a lot of missing MIC, presumably many were removed along with medal entitlement

Anyway, I took one at random 10912 Robert Burton

• No MIC
• Service record with no mention of medal - on FmP but not Ancestry - click
• A pension for his mother. I never realised their dependents got a pension, on Fold3
•  

[roughdiamond]

4 minutes ago, corisande said:

Looks like a lot of missing MIC, presumably many were removed along with medal entitlement

Anyway, I took one at random 10912 Robert Burton

• No MIC
• Service record with no mention of medal - on FmP but not Ancestry - click
• A pension for his mother. I never realised their dependents got a pension, on Fold3
•  

Thank you

It looks like a long list but it's only about 10%, I was looking for patterns like Regt/Corps, Time Period, Offence etc but there is nothing, as highlighted by only 1 man of 5 from the 3 Worcs Executed the same day seemingly having none.

 

I'm with you, I thought Pensions were withheld.

 

Sam

[corisande]

15 minutes ago, roughdiamond said:

I thought Pensions were withheld.

As with most bureaucracies, there is often no logic. Robert Burton's mother got a pension, but his War Grant was not paid. From Soldier's effects on Ancestry

 

Perhaps someone who knows about these things can say what the official ruling was on a  dependent's pension

[Matlock1418]

10 hours ago, corisande said:

what the official ruling was on a  dependent's pension

Typically for all Royal Warrants [though small variations in some wording] for all dependants ...

• Widow [Art. 11]
• Child(ren) [Art. 12],
• Widow's Alternative Pension [Art. 13]
• Motherless Child(ren) [Art. 18 ]
• Separated Wife [Art. 19]
• Unmarried Wife [Art. 20]
• Parent(s) [Art. 21]
• Other Dependant(s) [Art. 22]

The bottom line in all cases was that the soldier had to die in circumstances as set forth in the RWs' Art. 11 "... in consequence of the present war either (a) is killed in the performance of military duty, or (b) dies as a result of wounds or injuries received in the performance of such duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (c) died of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service or as having been aggravated by active service, within seven years of his removal from duty on account of such disease, may, provided the soldier's death has not been caused by his serious negligence or misconduct, be granted a ... pension" [Based on the man's substantive rank or paid acting rank at date of death or removal from duty]

Note:

• Performance of military duty - Would appear to include standing in front of a firing squad having been so convicted and such punishment awarded by a Court Martial *
• Serious negligence or misconduct - Might include suicide by use of a firearm [though pensions were commonly awarded] or mucking around with a grenade etc. outwith standard performance of military duties [though pensions were commonly awarded] ... it rather seems if the former requirement applied, then this other requirement did not.

* I have looked at a sample of about a half-dozen of the other cases listed above [not for murder] and pensions were awarded.  In the cases of murder I note the widow of Joseph CHANDLER applied for a pension and was refused, though she did receive a standard £5 Grant [Under Art. 14 - a widow's gratuity "to meet any expenses consequentially caused by the soldier's death"]

M

Edited 12 May , 2024 by Matlock1418
typo

[roughdiamond]

4 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Typically for all Royal Warrants [though small variations in some wording] for all dependants ...

• Widow [Art. 11]
• Child(ren) [Art. 12],
• Widow's Alternative Pesnion [Art. 13]
• Motherless Child(ren) [Art. 18 ]
• Separated Wife [Art. 19]
• Unmarried Wife [Art. 20]
• Parent(s) [Art. 21]
• Other Dependant(s) [Art. 22]

The bottom line in all cases was that the soldier had to die in circumstances as set forth in the RWs' Art. 11 "... in consequence of the present war either (a) is killed in the performance of military duty, or (b) dies as a result of wounds or injuries received in the performance of such duty within seven years of receiving such wounds or injuries, or (c) died of disease certified as contracted or commencing while on active service or as having been aggravated by active service, within seven years of his removal from duty on account of such disease, may, provided the soldier's death has not been caused by his serious negligence or misconduct, be granted a ... pension" [Based on the man's substantive rank or paid acting rank at date of death or removal from duty]

Note:

• Performance of military duty - Would appear to include standing in front of a firing squad having been so convicted and such punishment awarded by a Court Martial *
• Serious negligence or misconduct - Might include suicide by use of a firearm [though pensions were commonly awarded] or mucking around with a grenade etc. outwith standard performance of military duties [though pensions were commonly awarded] ... it rather seems if the former requirement applied, then this other requirement did not.

* I have looked at a sample of about a half-dozen of the other cases listed above [not for murder] and pensions were awarded.  In the cases of murder I note the widow of Joseph CHANDLER applied for a pension and was refused, though she did receive a standard £5 Grant [Under Art. 14 - a widow's gratuity "to meet any expenses consequentially caused by the soldier's death"]

M

Thanks for that info

 

Sam