Possibly no pension for an illegitimate child although there was an affiliation order.

[rolt968]

I think I need to be discrete about this case, so no names in the open forum at least.

A long serving Territorial Force soldier was killed in October 1918. There is a surviving soldier's record although a bit charred round the edges in places.

An illegitimate son was born in 1908 and given the man's forename and surname as his forenames. The father did not sign the register.

An affiliation order (from a so far unknown court) was obtained by the mother in 1916. She was to receive £8 per year. (The father was now a sergeant.) The army therefore stopped 7d per day for the suport of the child.

The sergeant married in 1917. (Not the mother of his child.) The couple had a daughter in 1918.

Following the man's death the widow completed the form about surviving relatives. There is no mention of the illegitimate son. (Interestingly the widow, mother of the illegitimate child and both children were living in the same small town.)

I have found two pension cards dealing with the widow and daughter, but nothing which mentions the illegitimate son. Obviously it is possible that the documents may have been lost.

Would the affiliation order "carry over" or would the child's mother have to reapply for a pension?

How significant was the "surviving relatives" form in the award of a pension? (I should know the number of the form - alas in the case the form number was a casualty of charred edges.)

RM

 

Edited 5 May , 2024 by rolt968

[Matlock1418]

On 05/05/2024 at 20:53, rolt968 said:

How significant was the "surviving relatives" form in the award of a pension? (I should know the number of the form - alas in the case the form number was a casualty of charred edges.)

I think you are likely referring to:

Army Form W.5080 Statement of the Names and Addresses of all Relatives of the above-named deceased Soldier in each of the degrees specified below that are now living

I think that form was intended for Army use - for the disposal of Medals and Memorial Plaques & Scrolls rather than MoP purposes.

M

[rolt968]

17 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

I think you are likely referring to:

Army Form W.5080 Statement of the Names and Addresses of all Relatives of the above-named deceased Soldier in each of the degrees specified below that are now living

I think that form was intended for Army use - for the disposal of Medals and Memorial Plaques & Scrolls rather than MoP purposes.

M

Thank you. That's the one.

[Matlock1418]

On 05/05/2024 at 20:53, rolt968 said:

Would the affiliation order "carry over" or would the child's mother have to reapply for a pension?

I would think an AO  would have been secured via a Magistrates' Court application [?? possibly in Scotland via a Sherriff Court ??] and later would become against a dead man and thus would be void = Consequentially a pension application would then have to be made against the state

To an extent the matter was discussed in the House of Commons and is recorded in Hansard [whilst discussing the then proposed 1917 RW - debated on Tuesday 6 March 1917]
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1917-03-06/debates/f53ba89f-38d1-4c57-aab2-2cbf46e17eea/OrdersOfTheDay 
In regard to illegitimate children, whether or not there has been an affiliation order against the reputed father, if the mother can convince the local committee as to the paternity of the child, she gets 5s. per week thereafter. 

That was the 1917 RW proposal and I don't think the subsequent and later applicable 1918 RW changed that much ... However, neither RW seems to explicitly address such a scenario.

I don't think there is a suggestion in there that can convince me that the Local War Pensions Committee would accept that an AO should/would automatically generate a pension allowance [I suspect an AO could perhaps be helpful though it does seem in some cases that a LWPC could potentially be a bit judgemental and decide dependant on the mother's then current behaviours and place in local society - I would think a potentially very public & bruising experience, perhaps for the second time]

I believe the mother, as the child's guardian, would probably have had to actively make an application to the MoP for a pension allowance for her child [but it may have been that she kept her head down ?? perhaps the previous experience of getting an AO had persuaded against further such public exposure ??] 

Sorry I can't be more helpful or definitive.

M