territorial medals

[jamie 1978]

It is my understanding that men who were in the territorials prior to the war and didn't serve overseas until after 1916 were awarded the territorial medal, as they didn't qualify for either stars. So you couldn't be awarded a star and a territorial medal- right? Did the recipiant of the territorial medal have to go to war with the territorial battalion or could they for example serve in the territorials prior to the war and transfer to another unit (say mid 1916 or 17) and then be awarded the territorial medal.

If it sounds confusing forgive me but it makes sense to me, when I read it slowly. I do have a reason for asking such a strange question, Im not just asking for no reason.

jamie tyrrell

[DirtyDick]

As far as I am aware, service with the Territorial Force for a set period pre-war and then signing oup before some point around Aug/Sept 1914 as being willing to serve overseas, but provided one did not serve in a theatre of war before 31/12/15 and thus earn one of the campaign Stars, qualified one for the TF War Medal (HarryBetts will probably be able to give you exact dates).

Thus, provided he fulfilled the above criteria, to the best of my knowledge he could transfer to the Regular/New Army and as long as he did not earn a Star he would qualify.

Richard

[CROONAERT]

It is my understanding that men who were in the territorials prior to the war and didn't serve overseas until after 1916 were awarded the territorial medal, as they didn't qualify for either stars. So you couldn't be awarded a star and a territorial medal- right?  Did the recipiant of the territorial medal have to go to war with the territorial battalion or could they for example serve in the territorials prior to the war and transfer to another unit (say mid 1916 or 17) and then be awarded the territorial medal.

      If it sounds confusing forgive me but it makes sense to me, when I read it slowly. I do have a reason for asking such a strange question, Im not just asking for no reason.

jamie tyrrell

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jamie.

If you click HERE you'll find a picture of and a brief description of the eligibility for the TFWM. You are correct when you say that the soldier cannot have both the TFWM and a star, but I believe that the terrier had to serve overseas either with his unit or as a transfer direct from his unit to be eligable for the medal.

Dave.

[Staffsyeoman]

Jamie,

As the Americans say... you're in the ballpark. You're talking about the Territorial Force War Medal, the rarest of the British WW1 series with some 34,000 issued.

To qualify, you had to:

1. Have a total of four years' service

2.Be serving in a unit on 30 Sep 1914, and have undertaken to serve overseas BUT

3. Not actually have done so before 1 Jan 1916 - therefore not qualifying for the Stars.

If 1. or 2. had been fulfilled, then it didn't matter which unit you set foot in an operational theatre with, you qualified. For example, the Machine Gun Corps shouldn't, you'd think, qualify for the TFWM as it was only founded in Oct 15, and had no 'territorial' elements. Yet, the TFWM roll (WO 329/3267) has nearly 1000 entries under MGC. This is because men could go overseas, but transfer to the MGC, or, their unit was disbanded or they went to the MGC as a draft. A couple of examples:

118279 PTE FOXALL EGA 275 COY 1299 6/HANTS R

Foxall QUALIFIED as 1299 6/Hants, but WENT OVERSEAS as 118279, 275 Coy MGC

32880 CPL BLAGDEN E 67 COY 889 8/ESSEX

Blagden had been in the 8th Essex, who had been Cyclists, but were disbanded - and a draft went to the MGC. Several qualified for the TFWM.

139309 PTE LAMBERT J 596 N CYC BN

Lambert went overseas, and qualified, as a member of the Northern Cyclist Bn. But he later transferred to the MGC.

Does that help?

[Pte1643]

3. Not actually have done so before 1 Jan 1916 - therefore not qualifying for the Stars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But the qualifying criteria states that you must have served "outside" the UK between the dates 4th Aug 1914 to 11th Nov 1918.

So it must have been possible to be awarded the medal, for overseas service, prior to Jan 1916.

Mark.

[Essexboy68]

Hello Folks

Stupid question time, but I am a little confused................

Did Territorial units who served in places such as India qualify for the TFWM even if they arrived there prior to 1916, as they were not in a "theatre of war". No reason to ask, other than curiosity.

Thanks

Mark

[GavinH]

"Did Territorial units who served in places such as India qualify for the TFWM even if they arrived there prior to 1916, as they were not in a "theatre of war". "

Mark,

Yes they did. I have a group of four medals named to a Private of the 1/4th Royal West Kents. It includes a TFWM and a BWM, but not a Victory Medal, as he served India and not in a theatre of war.

Regards

Gavin

[jamie 1978]

[

thanks for your info chaps

jamie

[Essexboy68]

Thanks for the reply Gavin, just seen it now.

Mark

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The TFWM is seen named to TF units that didn't serve overseas,{eg:Huntingdonshire Cyclists} To Units that didn't have TF Units{eg: Royal Flying Corps;even RAF{I have never heard of one to the Royal Navy but never say never!}:though to be fair there was a TF RFC Unit @ Farnborough,formed from a small number of RAE Employees who wore the title:"T~Hants ~RFC"}Tank Corps & as already stated the MGC

The main reason for its paucity is due to the fervour of 1914 when most already serving TF Men volunteered for overseas service,effective immediately,thus earning a Star,the few that weren't fit enough{or chose not to go then} for a 1914 or 1915 embarkation,would have thus qualified for the TFWM if they went on to serve Overseas in 1916,having so volunteered for Service Overseas,in 1914,a case in point ,which I am sure can be mirrored by other TF Battalions is the Cambridgeshire Regiment TF,the 1914~15 star Roll contains around 880 names[Then must be added those who later transferred to other Regiments or Corps],having gone to France on 14~02~1915 or as part of one or other of various Re~inforcement Drafts that still qualified for the Star,with the Battalion,which would bring the total of Star recipients up to around 1200/1500,against a TFWM Roll of just 34 Men & a small handful of Officers

[GavinH]

When war was declared the Territorial Battalions were mobilised. Some were immediately sent to India to relieve Regular Battalions, who were in turn transferred to the Western Front. This means that most of the men who qualified for the TFWM were already serving overseas by 1914-15. I believe the TFWM was authorised to recognise that these men had been early volunteers, but had missed out on a 1914 or 1914-15 Star due to the award criteria.

Regards

Gavin

[Staffsyeoman]

Indeed, in the ledger which contains the MGC TFWMs (last one issued in 1973..) there is a sole entry of a TFWM to an officer in; the Royal Naval Air Service! (Notes are not with me but I seem to recall it was issued in the 1960s)