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Officers Revolver 11th Cameronians - Found


ncreptile

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Hello from North Carolina US,

Four years ago an old military surplus store closed and I received this Spanish revolver in .455. It's one of many that were made near the start of WW1 for the British as Webley production struggled to keep up with demand. The revolvers were considered to be sub standard, so it surprised me to see a Majors name on the side.

"Major.R.V. Davidson

11th Cameronians"

I emailed the Scottish Rifles Museum in Hamilton and they were kind enough to provide me several documents from the 11th's war diaries where R Vernon Davidson was mentioned in dispatches, including a few dates like October 4th 1914 when he became "temporary"(brevet?) major of the 11th. By Sept 1916 he was in hospital for wounds and then the next month took over command of the battalion. By mid 1917 there's no mention of him at all and another Major had taken over.

Through limited googling I believe he was a Sergeant Major during the Boer war in the 20th(Rough Riders?). I've also attached a picture from an old period newspaper. I believe he's the officer in the second row sitting with his leg crossed. Listed as second in command.

 

I've exhausted my googling efforts and was hoping someone here could help me do further research on what happened after 1917. I'd love to figure out how and why his revolver ended up in Pennsylvania in the US decades after the war.

Some of the mentions in dispatches

Quote

Moulin Sept 30th 1915 - Took Company Commanders into trenches of 4th KRR at 2 pm - (Left half Battalion under MAJOR DAVIDSON was attached to 2nd RB and SHROPSHIRE REGT). went over the trenches with Right Half. Battn Commanders AT THE MOULIN, and returned to CAPPY at 6 pm. Marched from billets at 9.15 pm, reached THE MOULIN at 10.30 pm, and got men into trenches at 11.30 pm

-

Moulin Oct 2nd 1915 - Buried 15085 PTE MOORE at 7 am in a little graveyard close to the SOMME. There was no R.C. Chaplain available at the time so the C.O. conducted the service. LIEUTS MORTIMORE and STRATHIE were present. Before the service was finished the enemy's snipers made fair practise, but the burial was completed in spite of them. Fine warm day - marched out of the trenches at 7 pm and met left half Battn under MAJOR DAVIDSON at CAPPY. They had no casualties. Bivouaced outside MERICOURT for the night. White frost in the early morning.

-

B2 Trenches Carnoy Oct 18th 1915 - Left for B2 Trenches at 5.15 pm in relief of 10th BLACK WATCH at CARNOY. Companies marched along the road at 10 minute interval, as shelling had taken place lately. Fine clear moonlight night. Relief completed at 8 pm. Went round trenches with Adjt. KOYLI, at 4 am - all quiet. MAJOR DAVIDSON took half the distance. The fire trenches were fully 800 yds from the support. Three Companies in firing line and one in support. Very difficult getting water up to the men and as the cooking was all done in the Reserve - most of the food was stone cold when it reached the men.

-

Salonika Dec 7th 1915 - Weather dry & warm. mist on and off all day. Parade at 9.45, short route march under Major DAVIDSON until 11.30. 11.30 till 12.30 we took up a defensive position (the one we would take up in event of the camp being attacked). Usual Fatigues in afternoon. Night Very Misty & cold.

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Edited by ncreptile
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According to his medal card he died February 1st 1921, aged 56.  His widow lived in Exmouth, Devon.

His wife was Lilian Octavia Fortescue Ingram, who later married Hon. Ralph Shirley, died on 30th April 1957 in Lewes, Sussex.  A family tree suggests that she had some connection to USA but I don't have access.

 

Western Morning News, Thursday 3 February 1921
DREWSTEIGNTON - Retired Major's Death. Unexplained Occurrence At Drewsteignton. - At Drewsteignton yesterday, Mr H. C. Brown, Coroner, held an Inquest on ROBERT VENOUR DAVIDSON, aged 56, a retired major of the Indian Army, and recorded a verdict that "Death was due to gunshot wounds from the deceased's own gun, but that it was impossible to say whether the wounds were accidental or self-inflicted." - Evidence was given that early on Tuesday morning deceased went out, saying he intended to shoot some pigeons. - Mr Leslie Stuart White, a paying guest at Netherton House, said he was out shooting on Saturday with deceased, and the gun the latter was carrying went off twice without the trigger being touched. On Tuesday he found deceased's body in the paddock. - Dr H. L. G. Hughes, of Chagford, and P.C. Newbery, Drewsteignton, deposed to finding the body. They considered deceased had been standing up and fell backwards after the shot.

image.png.2966c373355bd6e4059fa2319f79cfd1.png

(Ancestry)

 

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Thank you for finding this. It's sad to see he survived the war only to die to an accident a few years later. 

The pistol may have come out of India. I'm unsure of it's back story but the company that had it imported tens of thousands of Lee Enfields and other surplus rifles and pistols out of India back in the late 20th century so it wouldn't surprise me to find thats where it ended up. I doubt(and hope it isn't) the pistol that ended his life. 

Edited by ncreptile
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It's difficult to be sure of his middle name on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, (taken 2nd April), but there is a 47 year old married man, Robert Venon(?) Davidson, married and a Retired and Pensioned Captain, Indian Army, who was recorded as a visitor at The Cottage, Cheriton Bishop, Exeter, Devon. The return was completed by the head of the household, and some of the writing is difficult to decipher.

It looks like the original entry for Robert says he had been married 17 years, but this has been messily over-written. The column relating to the number of children of the marriage and how many were still alive has been left blank. Birthplace was somewhere unreadable in New Brunswick.

His wife was not with him.

This was the household of a Edmund Charles Thwaytes, a single man aged 50 and a Retired and Pensioned Lieutenant Colonel in the Indian Army. Living with him is a maiden aunt and a sister, both born India.

I couldn't find Robert in Hart's Annual Army List in the aftermath of the Boer War - initially I thought he might have been commissioned as a result of his service there.

But on the 1894 edition on page 431 he is then listed as Lieutenant Robert Venour Davidson, Wing Officer in the 13th Bengal Native Infantry Regiment with seniority from the 25th August 1883. He was originally commissioned in the Leinster Regiment. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103813542

The Leinsters were also known as the Royal Canadians.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Wales's_Leinster_Regiment_(Royal_Canadians)

By the time of the 1898 edition and still a Wing Officer with the 13 Bengal Infantry, he was now a Captain with seniority from the 25th August 1894. (Page 416) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100768139

Same information in the 1900 edition (page 451) but now has a related note on his war service, (Reference 266 on page 501).
Captain R.V. Davidson served with the Sikkim Expedition in 1888 (Medal with Clasp). Served with the Chitral Relief Force under Sir Robert Low in 1895 with the 13th Bengal Infantry (Medal with Clasp).
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100840677

I'm not readily spotting him in the Canadian birth records on familysearch.

The Lilian who died in Sussex in 1957 was 84, so born c 1873. May be a co-incidence but there is a 36 year old Lilian O.F. Davidson, a married woman, born London, who was recorded on the 1911 Census living with her spinster sister Florence E. Ingram at 6 Hastings Road, Southend-On-Sea, Essex. The columns relating to length of marriage and children born \ children still alive, have all been left blank.

Hope that's of interest,
Peter

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Some notes say Vernour and others Vernon for his middle name. Vernon seems to be what's on the card listed by the museum.

I'm unsure if the R V Davidson from the Royal Canadians is the same R V Davidson as the one I found was not a LT in the Boer war but a sgt major. Would it be normal for someone born in Scotland to have been in a Canadian group?

Thanks to both of you for the information!

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2 hours ago, ncreptile said:

I'm unsure if the R V Davidson from the Royal Canadians is the same R V Davidson as the one I found was not a LT in the Boer war but a sgt major. Would it be normal for someone born in Scotland to have been in a Canadian group?

Originally a Squadron Sergeant Major, Robert Venour Davidson on the transcript of the Boer War medal roll I have access to is then shown as a 2nd Lieutenant in the 2nd Scottish Horse.

It was not uncommon for serving officers to resign there commission, (or come out of retirement) to serve with the Yeomanry or the many irregular units that fought alongside the British Empire forces in South Africa. Having been used to commanding others it's not unusual to find them quite quickly promoted to a Senior Non-Commissioned Officer Rank (SNCO), and as the conflict went on, to receive a local commission.

The Leinsters and the possibility of a North American connection may have led me astray into believing he was born New Brunswick, or N.B. as it appears on the Census return. But if you have definate information he was born in Scotland then there is an another possibility - an old alternative name used for Scotland is North Britain. And with that in mind the possibility becomes that he was born Inverness and it is either a mark on the page or an archaic way of writing double SS's, that makes that word difficult to read.

GBC_1911_CensusEandWRobertVenourDavidsonsourceGenesReunited.jpg.cf2a7444ed38d2cc077b85293d8e7db6.jpg

Image courtesy Genes Reunited.

There is indeed a birth of a Robert Venour Davidson at Inverness on the 2nd March 1864. He was the son of Robert Davidson and Mary Ann Venour. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYTV-3R7

Apologies for that.

Cheers,
Peter

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Hi folks,

Not had chance to join up all the dots yet but I do believe that this Robert Venour Davidson.

 

London Gazette  24/8/1883

Leinster Regiment

Gentleman Cadet Robert Venour Davidson, from the Royal Military College, to be Lieutenant, vice W. H. Coles, promoted. Dated 25th August, 1883

is the same Robert Venour Davidson as this :

London Gazette 27/9/01
20th Battalion. Imp. Yeo
To have the Distinguished Conduct Medal.
Squadron-Sergeant-Major R. V. Davidson.

 

When I have more I will post.

Matthew

Edited by Matthew B.
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This is the original record of his commissioning from the Gazette of 24 August 1883, followed subsequently by his appointment to the Bengal Staff Corps of the Indian Army on 16 December 1887. He was then promoted to Captain on 25 August 1894.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/25262/page/4171

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/25767/page/6994

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/26563/page/5931

On 24/03/2024 at 14:31, PRC said:

The Lilian who died in Sussex in 1957 was 84, so born c 1873. May be a co-incidence but there is a 36 year old Lilian O.F. Davidson, a married woman, born London, who was recorded on the 1911 Census living with her spinster sister Florence E. Ingram at 6 Hastings Road, Southend-On-Sea, Essex. The columns relating to length of marriage and children born \ children still alive, have all been left blank.

From the British Newspaper Archive, the London Evening Standard of Wednesday, 27 September 1893 records the marriage on 13 September 1893 of Robert Venour Davidson, then with the 13th Bengal Infantry, and eldest son of Robert Davidson of Inverness to Lillian Octavio ...., so this looks to be his marriage, as well as confirming the 1864 birth that Peter found is the correct one.

... MARRIAGES. • DAVIDSON—Int:IRA-M.—Sept. 13. at St. James's. Piecadilly, by the Rev. William T. Farrniloe, Robert Venour Davidson, , I.S.C. (13th Bengal Infantry), eldest eon of Robert Das iilson. ' Esq.. nf Inverness. to Lillian Octavio ...

FamilySearch is very kindly suggesting that his spouse was Mary Aertesen, although there is a newspaper announcement from the Worcester Chronicle that gives his bride's full name as Lilian Octavia Fortescue Ingram, so consistent with the information that Peter extracted from the 1911 England and Wales census.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DND-PG3

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPCL-463Q

On 24/03/2024 at 14:31, PRC said:

Same information in the 1900 edition (page 451) but now has a related note on his war service, (Reference 266 on page 501).

The same information is repeated in the April 1899 Indian Army list, along with several other entries indicating, amongst others, that he was a qualified musketry instructor.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.278897/page/n755/mode/2up?q=davidson

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.278897/page/n897/mode/2up?q=davidson

No sign of him in subsequent Indian Army lists after this date, which is consistent with this note in the Civil and Military Gazette (Lahore) of Tuesday, 13 February 1900, from the British Newspaper Archive once again, that he had been placed on the retired list.

... TENNIS. TENNIS RACQUETS I ' 1\ 'll I Alt Retirements. Under the authorty of the Secretary of State for Vidal, Captain Robert Venour Davidson, Indian Staff Corps, is placed on the retired list. Volunteer Corps. Rangoon Port Defence Voluntters.—Second-Lieutea ...

Also noted in the Army and Navy Gazette of Saturday, 3 March 1900.

... Queen has also approved of the removal from the Service of the undermentioned officer : Indian Staff Corps. —Capt. Robert Venour Davidson (Jun. 22). The following appointments have been made to the Staff in India : Capt. T. A. Harrison 1.5. C., to bo an ...

There is an RV Davidson showing up in the monthly Army Lists after the end of 1916, but it is not clear if this is just another officer with the same initials, or it is indeed Robert Venour Davidson. I suspect it is a different officer based on his commissioning date and the fact that he is serving with the Manchester Regiment.

 

Edited by Tawhiri
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12 hours ago, Tawhiri said:

There is an RV Davidson showing up in the monthly Army Lists after the end of 1916, but it is not clear if this is just another officer with the same initials, or it is indeed Robert Venour Davidson. I suspect it is a different officer based on his commissioning date and the fact that he is serving with the Manchester Regiment.

In the monthly Army Lists "our man" is shown with the surname "Vernon Davidson". I've only done a few dips so could probably do with fleshing out.

October 1916 (Column 1152a). 11th Service Battalion. Major R. Vernon Davidson, 2nd in Command, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123058365

January 1917 (Column 1152b-c). 11th Service Battalion. Major R. Vernon Davidson, 2nd in Command, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103214077

March 1917 (Column 1152b-c). 11th Service Battalion. Major R. Vernon Davidson, 2nd in Command, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/119985223

May 1917 (Column 1152b-c). 11th Service Battalion. Major R. Vernon Davidson, 2nd in Command, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104618576

September 1917 (Column 1152b-c). 11th Service Battalion but attached 3rd Battalion. Major R. Vernon Davidson, 2nd in Command, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120297682

January 1918  (Column 1144). Attached to the Regular Army Battalions establishment but no specific Battalion listed. Major R. Vernon Davidson, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123142101

July 1918. (Column 1144). Attached to the Regular Army Battalions establishment but no specific Battalion listed. Major R. Vernon Davidson, seniority from 3rd October 1914. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103516370

I took another look at the picture of the 11th Battalion Officers that appears in the edition of The Tatler dated November 10, 1915. I don't think there is enough detail to work out if the officer identified in the caption, (six from left, second\middle row) is wearing any medal ribbons.

Officersofthe11thServiceBattalionTheCameroniansTheTatlerNov101915sourcedArchiveorg.png.6d0f7d38e9f1e757e05b7f119c256dac.png

Image courtesy Archive org. https://archive.org/details/the-tatler-1901-1929/1910-1919/1915/The Tatler %230751v058 (1915-11-10) (BNA)/page/n23/mode/2up?q=Davidson+"scottish+rifles"&view=theater

Cheers,
Peter

Edited by PRC
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1 hour ago, PRC said:

I took another look at the picture of the 11th Battalion Officers that appears in the edition of The Tatler dated November 10, 1915. I don't think there is enough detail to work out if the officer identified in the caption, (six from left, second\middle row) is wearing any medal ribbons.

By 1915, he was, if this thread has the correct information, served in the Sudan, Chitral and Boer War- that would mean atleast 4 medals- perhaps 5. Those medals being..
Distinguished Conduct Medal
IGSM 1854-95 'Sikkim 1888'
India Medal 'Relief of Chitral 1895'
Queens South African Medal
Possibly a KSA?

That amount of gongs would take up the pocket's width or over.

No form of ribands are visible on the second row, sixth left fellow (who is identified as Maj Davidson). However it should be highlighted that it appears no other officer is wearing medal ribbons, or atleast not distinctly- perhaps Lt-Col Thompson is wearing a singular ribbon, obscured by a subalterns head. It's too grainy to make an ID of a medal ribbon anywhere.

Major Davidson also received the Order of the Crown of Romania in 1920.

Anyways, I'll shut up. I think I'm going in a full circle.

Zidane

Edited by tankengine888
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Thank y'all for all the great information that helped piece together more of his history. It seems he was very well traveled in the military over the years. I wonder how he started as a Major in 1914 and ended the war as a Major. I would have thought with all the open positions throughout the war that advancement would be quite common for an officer in an active unit? I'm guessing it was because he was 2nd in command and perhaps only could gain rank by leaving the unit? The one time he took command of the battalion was when the CO went to hospital for a period before returning.

Post war it looks like he was a captain in an Indian unit. I'm guessing he had to take a reduction in rank to stay in active service post great war?

Anyhow, thanks again for all the information. Very neat!

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38 minutes ago, ncreptile said:

I wonder how he started as a Major in 1914 and ended the war as a Major. I would have thought with all the open positions throughout the war that advancement would be quite common for an officer in an active unit? I'm guessing it was because he was 2nd in command and perhaps only could gain rank by leaving the unit? The one time he took command of the battalion was when the CO went to hospital for a period before returning.

Post war it looks like he was a captain in an Indian unit. I'm guessing he had to take a reduction in rank to stay in active service post great war?

So if they are all the same man, what I'm seeing is:-

Graduates Sandhurst 1883 and is commissioned in the British Regular Army in what would become the Leinster Regiment.
Transfers to the Indian Army in June 1886.
Is allowed to retire from the Indian Army in early 1900 and by June 1900 has been removed from the Indian Army List.
Next turns up in South Africa during the Anglo-Boer War of 1899-1902 serving in the ranks. After winning the Distinguished Conduct Medal he receives a local commission in a Yeomanry Regiment - probably a commission limited to the period that unit was serving in a Theatre of War. He would have been a Second Lieutenant in the Yeomany but with an underlying Regular Army rank of retired Captain, Indian Army.
By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales he is back to just being a Retired Captain, Indian Army.
In 1914 he receives a Wartime o,nly Temporary Commission in the British Army, and in a probable reflection of his experience he comes in straight as a Major in a Wartime Service Battalion, the 11th Cameronians to help it come into being, organise, train and prepare to go on active service service overseas. To that extent he may have been regarded as "over-promoted" and not suitable for the next steps up.
Come the end of the Great War his Temporary Commission is up and he is released but allowed to use the honorific Major.
Nothing so far to suggest he served again with the Indian Army other than the report of the Coroners Inquest that he was a Retired Major, Indian Army, but I suspect the two things have been conflated - he was a retired Major, and he was a retired officer of the Indian Army, the latter probably paying him a pension.
A check of the outbound passenger lists doesn't readily throw up any matches for him travelling ou to India post-war - but there are lots of R. Davidson's with very little detail. A further caveat is that he could have gone via cross-channel ferry, which wouldn't have been picked up in the passenger lists, before picking up his boat to India in one of the Mediterranean ports like Marseilles or Taranto.

Cheers,
Peter

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Working with Peter's 3 October 1914 date from the Army List and looking for Vernon Davidson then brings up this record of his recommissioning in October 1914 from the Gazette.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28960/supplement/8854

He has a couple of further entries in the Gazette as Vernon Davidson, one related to a temporary promotion to Lieutenant Colonel while commanding a battalion from 30 October 1916 to 30 November 1916, and then a second for temporary Major R Vernon Davidson to be a temporary Major (attached) on 20 August 1917.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29905/supplement/680

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30356/supplement/11116

He then relinquished his commission on 10 November 1920, and this time also has the letters DCM after his name, which suggests that he is indeed the Boer War man. I would note that his medal index card also has a record of his DCM.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32119/supplement/10923

Edited to add that in the 1881 England and Wales census he appears to have been a scholar and boarding at an address in St George Hanover Square, London, England, in the household of a 31-year old surgeon called Samuel Benton.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q273-ZDK5

The spelling of his second forename and age aside, this I suspect is Robert with his parents and siblings in the 1871 Scotland census. Certainly the maiden name of the mother of Arthur S(elby) Davidson matches that of Robert, as well as his parents' names being consistent with the birth record that Peter found above.

DAVIDSON ROBERT 1871 M 49 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
DAVIDSON MARY ANN 1871 F 47 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
DAVIDSON MARY ANNE ISABE 1871 F 18 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
DAVIDSON ROSE EMMELINE 1871 F 17 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
DAVIDSON ROBERT DENEON 1871 M 9 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
DAVIDSON ALICE HELEN 1871 F 9 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
DAVIDSON ARTHUR S 1871 M 3 098/ 4/ 25 Inverness Inverness
Edited by Tawhiri
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I'm wondering if there actually was at least one son from his marriage, as this report of his funeral from the Friday, 11 February 1921 edition of the Exeter and Plymouth Gazette apparently refers to a son, Master Robin Davidson.

DISTRICT NEWS

... 'Master Robin Davidson (son), Mrs. J. 11. Smith, and Mr. L. S. White. The coffin, which was covered with the Union Jack, was of unpolished oak with brass fittings, and the bi'oast plate bore the simple inscription: Robert Venour Davidson, aged years, died ...

I can only find one male Davidson/Ingram birth between 1893 and 1921 in the GRO Indexes, but the location is in the right geographical location if Netherton House is located in Netherton, Devon, on the banks of the River Teign. According to what looks to be his 1972 death registration in Gloucestershire Robert was born on 22 December 1906. 

DAVIDSON, ROBERT  ALASTAIR       Mother's maiden name: INGRAM

GRO Reference: 1907  M Quarter in CREDITON  Volume 05B  Page 363

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCP-NX2Q

There is, however, this earlier female Davidson/Ingram birth registered in the second quarter of 1904 in Rochford, Essex, which is just north of Southend-on-Sea, where Lilian was staying with her sister in the 1911 England and Wales census, so possibly another child of the marriage.

DAVIDSON, JOAN  MARY  Mother's maiden name: INGRAM  

GRO Reference: 1904  J Quarter in ROCHFORD  Volume 04A  Page 737

Unfortunately I'm not finding any sign of either child in the 1911 England and Wales census, but Lilian was resident in Prittlewell, Essex, which falls within the Rochford registration district in the 1881, 1891, and 1901 England and Wales censuses, the last one as a married woman in the household of a widowed sister,.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27D-CJMF

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPSQ-Z6Z

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9NR-JZ4

Edited to add that this 1904 Essex christening record does indeed confirm that Joan Mary Davidson is the child of Robert Vernour and Lilian Octavia Fortescue Davidson.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7N6V-V4W2 

Edited by Tawhiri
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The War Diary of the 11th Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) is split into 3 parts at TNA.

Only 1 part (WO 95/2253/4 - 1 September, 1915 – 31 October, 1915) is downloadable.

From this part of the WD, Major DAVIDSON is mentioned 4 times.

On 30 Sep 1915; 2, 17 and in a report Appendix in Oct 1915.

I have attached my transcription of these pages, and I have highlighted Major DAVIDSON's name where appropriate.

Hope this helps.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

11th Bn SRs - WD - 1915 09_Page_11.jpg

11th Bn SRs - WD - 1915 10_Page_06.jpg

11th Bn SRs - WD - 1915 10_Page_10.jpg

11th Bn SRs - WD - 1915 10_Page_22.jpg

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I had wondered about the Netherton House reference. Just down the estuary from me.

It's quite a distance from Drewsteignton though. Just checked NLS maps and there is another Netherton House almost within Drewsteignton village.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101444314

TEW

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We know he comes straight in as a Major on a Temporary War Service Commission on the 3rd October 1914 - and our parent site, The Long, Long Trail, shows the 11th Battalion being formed that month, the new Battalion being placed in the 77th Brigade, part of the 26th Division. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/cameronians-scottish-rifles/

The same site tells us the 26th "Division was established in September 1914 as part of Army Order 388 authorising Kitchener’s Third New Army, K3. The units began to to assemble in the Salisbury Plain area from September 1914. Khaki uniform and equipment were not made available until February-April 1915 and in the meantime eveything was improvised."
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/26th-division/

One of the other Battalions in the Division was the 7th Battalion Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. From their Regimental Chronicles:-

30th September 1914. The Battalion now formed part of the 78th Infantry Brigade, 26th Division, 3rd New Army, and during the next few weeks the N.C.O.'s and men were clothed in such old uniforms as could be supplied by old clothing contractors. Khaki was impossible to obtain, and the uniforms were mostly of blue serge, with an obsolete pattern service cap. There were no badges; so, in order to identify battalions of the 78th Brigade, patches of buff, blue, white, and green were sewn on the left upper arm, the 7th Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry wearing green. accoutrements, and equipment were not yet available for issue.

April 2nd 1915. Leather equipment was issued to the Battalion.

July 25th 1915. The new rifle (R.S.M.L.E. Mark III) was issued to the Battalion, which had previously been training with the D.P. Rifle (L.M.M.).
http://www.lightbobs.com/7-service-bn-oxf--bucks-li-1914-1915.html

But as an Officer Robert would normally be expected to provide his own side arms - the only restriction was they had to come off the approved list and be chambered for the standard size rounds in use. And that's of course assuming he didn't retain his old private purchase weapon from his previous period as an officer. As with providing their own uniform, an officer was compensated financially. Of course despite going out usually with a second weapon, while in the field a loss \ damage to one could leave an officer effectively dependant on a loan weapon in order to have a spare immediately to hand.

Unless his Scottish heritage made him exceptionally cost-conscious, you would have thought based on his experiences of campaigning in India and South Africa he would not wanted to have depended on a sub-standard weapon in the field. Speculation on my part, but as it looks likely with his posting to the 3rd Battalion in 1917 that he was returned to the UK, could it have been a purchase of a low-cost back-up weapon at that stage of his army career - one that was unlikely to ever be called upon in anger, not even to shoot pigeons.

Cheers,
Peter

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11 minutes ago, TEW said:

Just checked NLS maps and there is another Netherton House almost within Drewsteignton village.

I don't think they're the only two Netherton Houses either. :)

The Drewsteignton village one would, however, fit with a birth registered in Crediton, based on geographical proximity.

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5 hours ago, ncreptile said:

Thank y'all for all the great information that helped piece together more of his history. It seems he was very well traveled in the military over the years. I wonder how he started as a Major in 1914 and ended the war as a Major. I would have thought with all the open positions throughout the war that advancement would be quite common for an officer in an active unit? I'm guessing it was because he was 2nd in command and perhaps only could gain rank by leaving the unit? The one time he took command of the battalion was when the CO went to hospital for a period before returning.

Post war it looks like he was a captain in an Indian unit. I'm guessing he had to take a reduction in rank to stay in active service post great war?

Anyhow, thanks again for all the information. Very neat!

From his date of birth, he was already 50 yrs old when war was declared.

I have read somewhere, possibly GWF, that in 1916 it was ruled that no infantry battalion commander in the trenches should be over 35 yrs old because of the mental & physical strain.

This may explain his lack of advancement despite his strong military experience.

Very interesting thread.

Regards,

JMB

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1 hour ago, Tawhiri said:

I don't think they're the only two Netherton Houses either. :)

The Drewsteignton village one would, however, fit with a birth registered in Crediton, based on geographical proximity.

I was basing my ID of Netherton House on the proximity to Drewsteignton IE. the location of the shooting incident and the connection to the shooting party made by Mr White from NH.

TEW

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