Unknown RAF unit in Russia 1920

[Neil_York]

Can anyone help with identifying this man's RAF squadron or unit please.

329969 AC2 William BRUNDRED, RAF. Died serving in South Russia 23rd January 1920. Commemorated on the Haidar Pasha Memorial.

His record is not at the National Archives being too high a number/late enlistment. Commonwealth War Graves Commission has RAF only.

Thank you

Neil

[Adrian Roberts]

Try 47 Squadron. This unit was in South Russia, the Crimea I believe, in 1919, commanded by Canadian WW1 ace Raymond Collishaw. A check on another website suggested that the squadron was disbanded in August 1919 and renamed A flight, RAF mission. The main strength of the squadron evacuated about that time, driving lorries over its remaining aircraft on the dockside. I'm a little surprised that any of them remained there in January 1920; I wonder if your man was reduced to guarding the British consulate. Maybe he was a prisoner of the Bolsheviks, but in that case I would be surprised if his body was given a decent burial.

Adrian

[RichardH]

Neil,

Probably part of ‘A’ Detachment South Russia Instructional Mission- this was basically 47 Squadron RAF, (flying DH9s) which was disbanded in Oct 1919, and then almost to a man volunteered to continue the fight Bolshevik forces in Southern Russia and renamed.

Regards

Richard

[Adrian Roberts]

Richard

We posted at the same time! Looks like we agree on 47 sqdn / A flight. I will have to look at Collishaws book to refresh my memory of the precise date and circumstances that they left. Maybe the actions that I remember him descrbing were in 1920, not 1919.

Adrian

[RichardH]

A quick web search reveals that A Detachment were evacuated on 27th March 1920 from Novorossiysk- so date of Jan 1920 for your man would match

[RichardH]

Adrian,

Great minds think alike and all that! 47Sdn A it is then!

[Dolphin]

Comrades

Just to clarify (or perhaps confuse) the issue, No 47 Sqn wasn't just a DH 9-equipped unit. 'A' Flight used the DH 9A, 'B' Flight used Sopwith Camels (after re-equipping from its earlier DH 9s) and 'C' Flight flew DH 9s before re-equipping with RE 8s after their DH 9s were transferred to Russian Forces.

In addition to No 47 Sqn/'A' Sqn, another RAF unit in South Russia in late 1919 was 'Z' Flight - an RE 8 unit who almost came close to bombing Moscow during General Denikin's offensive to the north in December 1919. 'Z' Flight left Russia in early 1920.

Cheers

Gareth

[Neil_York]

Adrian, Richard & Dolphin - Thanks for your prompt & helpful responses. You are the experts. In the absence of Brundred's service record we'll take your word for it.

Kind regards

Neil

[Terry]

A considerable number of Canadians beside Collishaw flew with 47 Sqn and later the RAF Mission. One of the best known was Capt.W.F.Anderson, who was recommended for the Victoria Cross for his gallantry there. He ended up with a DSO, plus a slew of White Russian awards (St.George, St.Vladimir, St.Stanislaus,etc.)

[Adrian Roberts]

Capt.W.F.Anderson, who was recommended for the Victoria Cross for his gallantry there. He ended up with a DSO,

I can't resist enlarging on this one.....

Anderson and Geoffrey Elliot were on reconnaisance in DH9s [or 9As?] when Anderson's aircraft was hit in the fuel tank and the observer had to stand on the lower wing plugging the leak with his hand. Elliot's plane was then hit in the sump and had to land. Red Cavalrymen were approaching; Elliot's gunner was holding them off with the Lewis but clearly wouldn't have been able to do this for long. Anderson landed alongside, knowing that if he put a wheel down a rabbit hole they would all have been stranded. There was an agonising couple of minutes while Elliot and his observer removed the bolts from their machine guns, collected the photographic plates which were the reason for the mission, and set fire to the a/c with the Very pistol; then they got into the Anderson's rear cockpit, and Anderson took off four-up, with his observer still on the lower wing. The DH9 could carry 230lb of bombs as well as the two crew so weight wasn't an issue, but still it wouldn't have been an easy take-off.

The Bolsheviks had made it known that if they captured any British airmen, if they were lucky they would be crucified. If they were unlucky, they would still be crucified, but with a variation on which part of the anatomy the nails went through.

In WW1 two airmen were awarded VCs for such rescues. Why Anderson was not awarded a VC probably was due to the fact that postWW1, the public was tired of war and the need for good propaganda stories did not exist. (I'm not suggesting the WW1 VCs were not deserved, but they did make good propaganda). And of course, for most of the twentieth century a large proportion of the British government and media tended to think that the Bolsheviks were decent chaps.

Anderson became an airline pilot but was killed in a crash in 1936; Elliot became Air Chief Marshal Sir...

This account is taken from the autobiography of Raymond Collishaw; it may be wise to take some details with a pinch of salt!

Adrian

[Dolphin]

Anderson and Geoffrey Elliot were on reconnaisance in DH9s [or 9As?]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Adrian

Just to clarify things, Capt Walter Fraser Anderson and 2Lt J D B Mitchell were flying in DH 9 D2942 when they landed to pick up the crew of DH 9 D2846, Capt H Elliot DFC and Lt H S Laidlaw, on 30 July 1919 during a bombing raid on Bolshevik positions at Tcherni-Yar. There were three DH 9s involved in the raid, the other machine was flown by Capt S G Frogley, with Lt N Greenslade as observer.

D2846 was burnt where it landed, while D2942 continued operational flying, and was damaged in a raid on Tsaritsyn on 6 August 1919; it was sold to the Anti-Bolshevik Government at Simferopol in February or March 1920.

Captain Anderson was later wounded by machine gun fire on 10 October 1919. He was killed while flying a DH 86 on a night mail flight from Gatwick, UK, to Germany in September 1936; his aircraft hit a tree while turning back - there was a theory that the aircraft's radio operator's foot became wedged between the fire extinguisher and the second rudder bar, thus making control very difficult.

Regards

Gareth

[Adrian Roberts]

Gareth

Thanks for the extra info.

You give Elliot's initial as H; I thought from memory that it was G, but his entry in rafweb.org gives his name as William.

I wonder how AC2 Brandreth died? Did AC2's fly operationally at this time? Typhus was a huge problem in the area; Collishaw nearly died of it at one point.

Adrian

[Dolphin]

Gareth

Thanks for the extra info.

You give Elliot's initial as H; I thought from memory that it was G, but his entry in rafweb.org gives his name as William.

I wonder how AC2 Brandreth died? Did AC2's fly operationally at this time? Typhus was a huge problem in the area; Collishaw nearly died of it at one point.

Adrian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Adrian

The DH4/DH9 File has Capt Elliot's initial as 'H', but you prompted me to check H A Jones' Over the Balkans and South Russia, where he's called just 'Captain Elliott' in the text, but is shown as 'Captain W Elliot' in the list of officers awarded the Russian Order of St George 4th Class.

There was a fair number of experienced observers in No 47/'A' Sqn, so it's probably unlikely that an AC2 would have flown operationally. As you suggest, Typhus is a very likely cause of death in South Russia in late 1919/early 1920.

Regards

Gareth

[RFT]

Hello Dolphin/Adrian Roberts/Neil York

329969 AC2 William Brundred

Batman with 47 Squadron RAF

Disembarked Novorossisk, South Russia, 9th July 1919

Arrived for duty at Ekaterinodar, South Russia, 11th July 1919

To Beketovka with 'A' Flight train 7th October 1919

Died 23rd January 1920. Son of John T Brundred of Leeds

The majority of 47'A' Squadron embarked South Russia at varying times throughout March 1920 (my Grandfather included).

If anyone has a photo of William Brundred (or any other 47 Squadron member) it would be very much appreciated.

Best regards

Rob

[RFT]

329969 AC2 William Brundred

Further to my 14 November post- At the time of his death (23 Jan 1920), 'A' Flight, 47'A' Squadron, were at Simferopol to collect aircraft (which had earlier in the month been offered to them by the local Russian authorities) to help in the defence of the Crimea. Only 2 aircraft were made available and these were in such poor condition that only one was complete and ready for service by the 31st January 1920.

Rob

[gothic69]

Hi

Is 'Z' Flight the same as used in the Somaliland Campaign of Jan 1920 against the 'Mad Mullah' or is just a coincidence in lettering. There is a link though, its commander was Group Captain Gordon who was in the South Russia Mission.

Cheers

Ian

[Frank_East]

No 329969 AC2 William Brundred was issued with a service number from a block allocated (329001-33500) to Aircrafthands and who joined the Royal Air Force between March and August 1919.

AC2 was a Royal Air Force induction grade and airmen carried this rank until they were trained at trade school or earned promotion by assimulating trade skills on the job as groundcrew as the case might be.During this era, the larger proportion of airmen would be directed to operational units.An AC2 might get a ride in an aircraft and I am sure that at times they would fill in for manpower shortages as junior aircrew but normally their defined duties would not include operational flying.

An Aircrafthand was a gash (spare) hand on a squadron and would help in manually handling aircraft etc and undertake menial tasks. As aircraft became larger and mechanical machinery became involved in handling, Aircrafthands usually drove the towing vechicles.

The designation as Aircraft Assistant was still in use over 30 years later for those employed as such on the squadrons.

[RFT]

No 329969 AC2 William Brundred was issued with a service number from a block allocated (329001-33500) to Aircrafthands and who joined the Royal Air Force between March and August 1919.

Hello Frank East

I have, for the past 5 years, undertaken in-depth research into the men of 47 Squadron, South Russia (1919/1920) and the above information is proving most helpful, but I need to know if the number allocation 33500 is correct or should it be 335000.

By reference to the above service numbers it seems that 50 or so men joined this squadron between March and June 1919.

Thanks in anticipation

Rob

[Guest exexpat]

RFT - would you have any information re AC2 F O Freeman who served with 47 Squadron and who was buried in Sevastopol, Russia (now Ukraine). many thanks

[Bob Mitchell]

Just to add a little more to the topic. Capt Anderson was from Toronto Ontario Canada and his Observer Lt John Mitchell (My Grandfather ) was from Jedbourgh Scotland.

I have some portions of Mitchell's Service Record and will check to see if any will be of use to you. One of the other reasons that the VC was not awarded to Anderson and Mitchell was the fact that much paper-work was lost when the RAF had to pull out of South Russia in a bit of a hurry to avoid capture.

Yours Aye

MItch

[bushfighter]

Chaz Bowyer's interesting book RAF Operations 1918-1938 includes a chapter titled Russian Interlude.

I quote from page 49:

"In one year of almost non-stop operations over southern Russia the men of No 47/'A' Squadron(s) were awarded totals of four DSOs, two OBEs, two MBEs, sixteen DFCs and one Bar to the DFC, three AFCs, thirteen Meritorious Service Medals (MSMs) and a flock of 75 Russian orders and decorations of various sorts."

Harry

[Bob Mitchell]

Bushfighter

Of the various medals awarded for their efforts in South Russia my Grandfather (Lt J Mitchell) was awarded the DSO, DFC, Order of St Vladimar, Order of St Stanislas(sp), Order of St Anne and St Georges Cross. I have the miniatures (Mess Dress) origionals passed down to me and the actual medals are in the Cambridge University Museum. They were apparently purchased for a Dealer in 1928 by an American collector. When he died he left his large collection to the University. A photo of the miniatures can been seen as my Avitar pic.

Mitch

[stephen p nunn]

Can anyone help with identifying this man's RAF squadron or unit please.

329969 AC2 William BRUNDRED, RAF. Died serving in South Russia 23rd January 1920. Commemorated on the Haidar Pasha Memorial.

His record is not at the National Archives being too high a number/late enlistment. Commonwealth War Graves Commission has RAF only.

Thank you

Neil

Neil - not sure if it helps but have a look at my thread within this forum on 2AM Collins - started on 6/3/10. Seems similar to your chap - 47 squadron?

Regards.

SPN

Maldon

[RFT]

Hello exexpat

According to my records:- Frank Oliver Freeman was the son of Mr and Mrs J W Freeman of Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire. His father was a Hairdresser, Tobacconist & Umbrella Maker.

AC2 Frank Oliver Freeman was one of the 176 other ranks who disembarked Novorossisk, South Russia on the 9th July 1919.

Following disembarkation each and every one was paraded ashore for roll call and within no time at all were marched to a string of cattle trucks which were waiting to take them to the town of Ekaterinodar (according to AC2 Reynolds, ten men to each truck, with plain boards to sleep on). It took almost 2 days to reach the HQ aerodrome (11th July).

Mr Freeman's RAF trade was that of a General Clerk. He served with the squadron's "A" Flight on the Volga front. Lieut B G H Keymer along with Lieut D B Thompson were 2 of "A" Flights officers who were killed in October 1919. I am lucky enough to have a delightful framed photo of Lieut B G H Keymer (which looks down on me as I write).

In a nutshell, by December month "HQ" and "A" Flights (which had been conjoined by this time) and "Z" Flight were maintaining a fighting retreat and forced to move south and east to cross the Don into Kuban country. They arrived at Krinichnaya on Christmas Eve during a blinding blizzard. According to Raymond Collishaw the official reports record that Christmas dinner for the men was a great success waited on by the officers. This is at variants with that described by AC Reynolds (2 hard boiled eggs in lieu of the usual 1). On the 27th AC Freeman died of sickness (possibly typhus), to be followed a month later by AC2 William Brundred who passed away on the 23rd January, 1920. Mr Brundred also served with "A" Flight.

Regretfully that is all the information that I have on Frank Oliver Freeman. I shall be pleased to know if you can add anything further (or indeed correct any errors!)

Regards

Rob.

[bushfighter]

Mitch

Well done to your Grand Father - he was certainly a top combat aviator.

As a forced landing behind enemy lines sometimes meant an immediate bayonet thrust being delivered against you, those air crew had real guts and determination.

Harry