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Remembered Today:

RAMC Soldier - Sgt. William Trigger


TomP

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Hi guys

I've had amazing help on other posts helping me look into soldiers I would like to do further research on - I was wondering whether anybody would be able to help me with this chap. I am currently the custodian of his 1914 Star trio (without bar). The only info I have managed to find out about William so far is that he was in the RAMC and looks to have remained with the Corps during the war and landed in France November 1914 - and also that he started as a private and ended up a Sergeant - presumably a wartime promotion? My late Grandad served with the RAMC in the 1950's and served in Hong Kong for his national service - as such I was thrilled to be able to acquire a set of medals to a man who served in the same Corps, albeit under very very different circumstances.

Is there anything else that can be found our about this chap, either his service/unit/promotion etc?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!
Tom

 

MICTrigger.JPG.3e12e9f5154bcb23789020dd84d13d8d.JPG

Source: Forces War Records 

My display made to display William's medals and honour his service:

TriggerMedals.jpg.37745d075389a963e013470ab41fcced.jpg

 

Edited by TomP
Added deployment date.
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not a lot found.

sometimes its worth a look at similar near soldiers.

interestingly on the roll for the BWM/Vic the soldier two numbers away , Arthur James Talbot 33378 RAMC only went to France on 10/12/14 and only got the 14/15 star not the 14.

Trigger has a star roll entry , started as a Private and no notation for Clasp and Roses like the ones above him.

 

there are four William's on the 1911 census (I take 1895+-5 years . Just using the William not another christian name option which may open up other options.

1/ Hanley Staffs  , Age 16, an apprentice packer, there is a family tree (private) may be worth contacting the owner. (dont mention you have his medals)

2/ Exeter, Age 13 , errand boy but has initials, A or P or A and P as well, Northumberland Fusiliers so going to discount him, also too young for a 14 star.

3/  Glamorgan,  Age 21 a labourer, down as Wm A but has a pension record for MAlaria and debility (neur) discounting him. 

4/ there is a record for an 18yr old, RFA , later Tankie, from Birmingham, has a service record so discount him.

 

So from this , I would say possibly the first one, from Hanley Staffs, and as a apprentice packer, probably not very manual so might be a candidate for a less physical medical roll. 

Not saying this is 100% but If I recall there is a place that holds records or have a look at http://www.ramc-ww1.com/index.php

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10 hours ago, chaz said:

interestingly on the roll for the BWM/Vic the soldier two numbers away , Arthur James Talbot 33378 RAMC only went to France on 10/12/14 and only got 14/15 star.

 

22 November being the cut off date for the 14 Star.

10 hours ago, chaz said:

Trigger has a star roll entry , started as a Private and no notation for Clasp and Roses like the ones above him.

Presumably between the 18 and 22 Nov he was still travelling between Base Depot near the port of disembarkation and front line, thus not in range of the enemy.

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@chaz Thanks for your reply. It sounds like you're probably right about the first chap then. I might try and do some more digging when I visit my local library as they have free access to the Ancestry stuff. Is the 1914 Star roll on there? The only paperwork I have for William at current is the MIC. I appreciate it is much trickier finding records/history for members of the various Corps, rather than the Infantry regiments who tend to have their own regimental histories/museums!

@Alan24 Thanks Alan, I knew the cutoff was late November but didn't realise he has only qualified for the Mons star by only 4 days! The absence of the bar then also makes a lot of sense (I wasn't sure if this had just been misplaced) but as Chaz confirms above the roll confirms he wasn't entitled (though I haven't seen this myself). 

It sounds like wartime service is going to be tricky to track down, ie to a specific field ambulance unit etc but I appreciate your help in looking, thanks guys. 

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When you get to the library it might be worth checking against those in the RAMC 14 Star Roll who landed on the 18th November.  It seems quite a large draft which is unsurprising as the medical facilities were just getting going with the Base Hospitals being set up.

I had a quick look and unfortunately there does not appear to be any discernible pattern as they were posted from the Base Depot. I found one at No4 Stationary Hospital St Omer and another posted to 15 Field Ambulance and another to the Lahore Division.

They appear to have been recruited between the 7th and 10th September 1914, a large proportion from the Midlands.

 

1 hour ago, TomP said:

I appreciate it is much trickier finding records/history for members of the various Corps, rather than the Infantry regiments who tend to have their own regimental histories/museums!

https://surreymuseums.org.uk/museum/the-museum-of-military-medicine/

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1 hour ago, kenf48 said:

When you get to the library it might be worth checking against those in the RAMC 14 Star Roll who landed on the 18th November.  It seems quite a large draft which is unsurprising as the medical facilities were just getting going with the Base Hospitals being set up.

I had a quick look and unfortunately there does not appear to be any discernible pattern as they were posted from the Base Depot. I found one at No4 Stationary Hospital St Omer and another posted to 15 Field Ambulance and another to the Lahore Division.

They appear to have been recruited between the 7th and 10th September 1914, a large proportion from the Midlands.

 

https://surreymuseums.org.uk/museum/the-museum-of-military-medicine/

Thanks @kenf48

Is this roll available on Ancestry then? I have only ever had access to Forces War Records myself. Would it just be a case of searching Williams service number in their search and finding results which correspond to a medal roll? I see on his MIC it says RAMC/18 and Page 88, presume I need to find and look here?

Is there also a role for the VM/BWM awards as well?

In terms of where they were stationed, do you think this was decided on disembarkation/arrival i.e. sent to wherever he was needed most rather than heading to France knowing this already? It would be great to find out when/how he was promoted to Sergeant. If the VM/BWM roll is available this could tell us whether the promotion was wartime, is that correct?

Thank you for the link as well, I honestly didn't know such a museum existed!

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2 minutes ago, TomP said:

Is this roll available on Ancestry then?

The Blue type is the link to the 14 Star Roll for the RAMC on Ancestry (300 pages)

3 minutes ago, TomP said:

I see on his MIC it says RAMC/18 and Page 88, presume I need to find and look here?

 

Yes he is on page 88 because the award of this medal was limited by date the Roll shows when they entered a theatre of war which was transferred to the cards.  The Roll is the document of record the cards as the name suggests were an administrative index

8 minutes ago, TomP said:

Is there also a role for the VM/BWM awards as well?

Yes  it was a separate roll as the medals were authorised on different dates there is no additional information on this entry which is here on Ancestry

10 minutes ago, TomP said:

In terms of where they were stationed, do you think this was decided on disembarkation/arrival i.e. sent to wherever he was needed most rather than heading to France knowing this already?

I have only looked at a handful of records of those who landed in France on the 18th November as stated there is no discernible pattern we can be sure of and it does look very much that the draft was posted form the RAMC Base Depot, as you say to where they were needed, e.g. the man posted to 15 Field Ambulance was at the base for ten days before being posted on.

It would seem you need a spreadsheet to list  all those who landed on the 18th November. Then search for extant records  to see where they went.  My own thoughts are that as the Base Hospitals were being set up he probably was posted there. The late Sue Light Scarlet finders website has the transcribed war diary of the Matron in Chief which gives a flavour of what was happening in France at this time  http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/30.html

You could also download war diaries from TNA for free if you register.

I also suggest you see if you can find the Absent Voters List for his home town which may tell you where he was serving in April 1918.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

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regarding searching medal rolls, a few hints, as usual... anything applies not standardised.  surname normal but with multiple (2 or 3) christian names only the first complete 2nd is just an initial

star rolls....usually initials and surname

bwm/vic rolls... both on the same page  usually christian name and surname.

when you get into Fold 3 ...can be a minefield.

I start with surname,  christian name  then surname,  initials , then surname,initial  .... note surname comma  then a space christian name, same applies to the initials finally without the space either after the comma or if two initials no space between both.

William has many problems,  W  or Wm each option has to be tried. then in the case of multiple serial numbers same applied for all options. Sometimes when you add serial number they will offer crossed sword hint with number , you can use that, in the case of multiple numbers same applies then I also split the numbers individually.

this does not include spelling mistakes or listing errors.

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@kenf48 Thanks Ken. I'll have plenty to be looking through once I get access to Ancestry then! I really wish I had taken advantage of the brief free period around Armistice day. 

I checked the absent voter list website and if my chap is the one from Staffordshire then that link appears not to be working annoyingly. 

 

@chaz Thank you for all of the tips. When you say Fold 3 what do you refer to sorry? 

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Fold3 is similar to Ancestry, owned by them now, that mainly deals with military information. 

the advantage being Ancestry is mainly WW1 but Fold3 also covers earlier do's and the American Civil war.

Also more of the medical records on F3 and pension info. Ancestry do refer some items in their collection to F3 but you need am account. If you have ancestry access you can log into F3 with your Ancestry details.

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