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mordac

Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

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Broznitsky

Garth/Jack: The painting on the left is called "Frezenburg"; it can't be Vimy period as the cloth caps and pickelhaubed Germans are wrong for 1917. I am sure I have seen it described as depicting spring 1915 action. I also think the artists are different.

Peter in Vancouver

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BottsGreys

Hi Garth:

Could you look up a PPCLI enlisted man for me (probably a private)?

Name: Abram Ecker, No. 739099, possibly went transferred into PPCLI from 114th Battalion in March 1917. Supposedly wounded 30 October, 1917.

Thanks so much,

Chris

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WJBates

Peter & Garth: I spoke too soon, and agree with you Peter, the one on the left is Frezenberg by PPCLI soldier's book and also Kit Shop items as well as the recent publication of With the Pats in Flanders 14-18 by Newman, which I just looked up. WB Wollen artist. So were my thoughts they both were of the same battle and different artist's versions. Niven on the left and Niven on the right are how I'm going to refer to them from now on to help ID them. Further to the left one, the two soldiers throwing grenades are Ptes JJ McCormack and J Kelly. MGer is Cpl C Dover, next to him is Pte L Phillips, soldier to right is Pte G Candy, Cpl AG Pearson carrying ammo box, wounded man in trench is Sgt John McDermott. Kelly, Dover died in Ypres action, McC and McD died in 1916. How about that for the family or PPCLI battle researchers. From the 1964 article I mentioned. Classic paintings, worth trying to sort out. regards jack

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mordac

Hi Guys:

I seem to be missing most of the posts in this thread in my web browser. I jump from post number 6 down to Jack's post of Sunday, January 25 with nothing in between. :huh:

It appears from Jack's last post you've discovered my mistake on the painting on the left (which I can no longer see in the thread) <blush> I was dead wrong on it and knew for certain when I referenced some war art books at work today. Richard Jack did do a Vimy painting, but that's not it. It is, as Jack has stated, "The Second Battle Of Ypres" by W.B. Wollen.

If you want to see the Richard Jack Vimy painting, check out the cover of 'Battery Action!: The Story of the 43rd Battery Canadian Field Artillery 1916-1919' ISBN 1-896979-31-9.

I regret and apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

Garth

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BottsGreys

Hi Garth:

Could you look up a PPCLI enlisted man for me (probably a private)?

Name: Abram Ecker, No. 739099, possibly went transferred into PPCLI from 114th Battalion in March 1917. Supposedly wounded 30 October, 1917.

Thanks so much,

Chris

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WJBates

Garth: No problem, without you and your resources and willingness to respond, as well as Peter's, we would not be as wise as we are today. regards jack

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mordac
Name: Abram Ecker, No. 739099, possibly went transferred into PPCLI from 114th Battalion in March 1917. Supposedly wounded 30 October, 1917.

Hi Chris:

Your information is correct. The following is from the PPCLI history:

739099 Echer, A., Pte.

Originally overseas unit 114th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field March 6, 1917

Wounded October 30, 1917

Struck of strength in the field November 18, 1917

You can view his attestation papers here.

Garth

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Terry

Hi Garth,

I had earlier asked about 21867 Sjt.C.K.McRorie. I have his 14-15 Star, and his National Archives file. He ended up a lieutenant. Anything on him?

Cheers,

Terry

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mordac
I had earlier asked about 21867 Sjt.C.K.McRorie. I have his 14-15 Star, and his National Archives file. He ended up a lieutenant. Anything on him?

Hi Terry:

Sorry if I missed your post; I still can't view the entire thread. Here's the information on your man:

21867 McRorie C. K., Pte. - Sgt. - Lieut. May 19, 1917

Originally overseas unit 11th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field June 28, 1915

At E.O.R.D. March to October 1918

Struck of strength in the field March 20, 1919

Garth

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BottsGreys

Garth:

Terrific! Thanks so much--I greatly appreciate your efforts.

Chris

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Broznitsky
I regret and apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

No worries, mate, you are probably still giddy from your Urquhart 16th Battalion acquisition! :D

Eyes misty with book lust, Garth misidentifies a painting. Hey, it could happen to me!! :P

Peter in Vancouver

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WJBates

Garth: Thank you for the pages, very interesting to read and follow the different ones. Cpl C Dover was hard luck. Depicted as the MGer, lost an arm and a leg, blown up and buried, rescued and then killed by a sniper while being carried out. Day of destiny....regards jack

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gem22

Garth

Can you answer a query for me please? I was watching a re-run of an edition of MASH on TV last night (are you familiar with it?) and one of the characters claimed to be from the 2nd Batt Princess Pat's.

My question is were they still in existence in the Korean war(?) as I thought the regiment had been amalgamated into the Canadian army in ww1?

Thanks

Garth

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Broznitsky

PPCLI fought in WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and is still in existence as a combat unit of the Canadian Armed Forces. I think Garth's nephew just joined them.

The regiment, raised by a Montreal millionaire in 1914, was always a part of the Canadian army, although in WWI it was "seconded" to serve with the British for several months before coming back to serve with 3rd Division CEF.

Peter in Vancouver (pretending to be Canadian Garth)

P.S. In the M.A.S.H. episode, did the Canadian character speak with an English accent? MASH was an extremely popular telly series here in North America by the way.

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mordac
My question is were they still in existence in the Korean war(?) as I thought the regiment had been amalgamated into the Canadian army in ww1?

Hi Garth:

During WWI, The PPCLI were privately raised by A. Hamilton Gault and Francis Farquhar in 1914. They recruited men with previous military experience which allowed them to be the first Canadian battalion to enter the war. As Broz mentioned, the PPCLI were "seconded" to the 80th Brigade, 27th Division, BEF. They landed in Belgium on January 5, 1915 and entered the line for the first time on January 6/7. On December 22, 1915 the PPCLI were united with the Canadian Corps as a member of the 7th Brigade.

The PPCLI arrived in Korea in December 1950 under the command of Lieutenant Colonel J. R. Stone, DSO, MC. On February 6, 1951, Second Battalion joined the 27th British Commonwealth Brigade and became the first Canadian Infantry Battalion to be involved in the Korean war. The PPCLI left Korea on January 8, 1954.

I'm proud to say my grandson joined the PPCLI last summer and seems to be enjoying the rigors of army life.

Garth

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mordac
Thank you for the pages, very interesting to read and follow the different ones.

Hi Jack:

Glad to hear Canada Post still works. :P

Here's another snippet of information regarding Hugh Niven. Just before going over the top, during the Battle of Passchendaele on October 30, 1917, Major Talbot Papineau turned to Niven and said "Hughie, this is suicide." Moments later Papineau was hit by an artillery shell. What was left of Papineau's remains could only be identified because he wrapped his putties in a reverse manner.

Talbot Papineau was the grandson of Louis-Joseph Papineau, leader of the 1837 Lower Canada Rebellion.

Garth

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gem22

Garth and Broz

Thankyou both for your replies. It's good to hear the Pat's are still around.

Garth

I hope your Grandson enjoys his time in the army.

broz

MASH was very popular over here, but I still watch the re-runs. The Pats character had a Scots accent, not English, and wore a kilt; though I wasn't aware the Pats were a Highland regiment.

Thanks again

Garth

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mordac
The Pats character had a Scots accent, not English, and wore a kilt; though I wasn't aware the Pats were a Highland regiment.

Hi Garth:

Sorry, the PPCLI were never a Highland regiment and never wore kilts. I'm afraid the directors of MASH was exercising their creative imagination. :lol:

However, they did have a pipe band. It's my understanding the Edmonton City Pipe Band, under the leadership of Pipe-Major C. Colville, accompanied the PPCLI for the duration of WWI. The pipe band wore the Hunting Stewart tartan. I'm hoping James Hill will post more details on the band.

Are you there James?

Garth

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Broznitsky

I don't think the Pats are aware they are a Highland regiment!! :D

Muttering: Must not bash American script-writers, do not provoke international incident, must not bash American script-writers, do not provoke international incident, repeat X 20 . . .

Peter of New Caledonia (no, I do not live in an Igloo)

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Robert Dunlop
(no, I do not live in an Igloo)

Global warming is definitely getting worse ;)

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jhill
However, they did have a pipe band. It's my understanding the Edmonton City Pipe Band, under the leadership of Pipe-Major C. Colville, accompanied the PPCLI for the duration of WWI. The pipe band wore the Hunting Stewart tartan. I'm hoping James Hill will post more details on the band.

Are you there James?

I am afraid that your quote is pretty much the limit of my knowledge of the pipe band. Every Police and Fire Brigade had a pipe band (as they do today!). I do not have a history of this regiment close at hand. I do seem to recall that they went overseas with three bands. I seem to think one was an Edmonton bugle band. We shall have to look that up somewhere.

Since you have opened the door, I will give a plug for my home town concerning the founding of this famous regiment. Although the Regiment was designed to represent all parts of the Dominion, and despite the fact that it was eventually reinforced from Ontario, a large chunk of its original strength came from Edmonton. On August 12, 13, and 15 of 1914, contingents of 120, 110, and 65 respectively were sent east. I do not know if the pipe band was included. Also, there were four contingents from University Companies sent out in 1915, totalling about 100, which reinforced the Pats in the field.

I believe that Hugh Niven was one of those originals.

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KAYJAY
Have acquired the two volume history of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 1914 - 1919. Contains unit history, maps, Roll of Honour, Nominal Roll, Record of Service, and Decorations & Awards. Published 1923.

I'd be happy to lookup any information for forum members.

Garth

Hi Garth,

I would be gratefull if you could tell me of any more Mackay / Mckays on the nominal roll.

I am aware of 8 at present. 14 Pte John Mckay, 579 Cpl (later Lt.) Mackay Mackay, 546 later 889 Neil Mckay, 1683 Sgt (later Lt.) John Mackay, 51321 Pte Daniel Joseph Mckay, 105762 Cpl David William Mckay, 475927 Pte (later Capt.) James Edward Mackay and 769531 Pte Thomas Mackay.

Regards Ken.

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mordac

Hi Ken:

Here's the 10 names listed on the nominal roll:

51321 Pte. D. J. McKay

Original Unit - 28th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field - April 11, 1915

Wounded - May 6, 1915

Struck off strength - May 17, 1915

105762 Pte.-Cpl. D. W. McKay, MM

Original Unit - 68th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field - June 10, 1916

Wounded - September 15, 1916, September 27, 1918

Struck off strength - March 20, 1919

1683 Cpl.-Sgt. Lieut. (July 14, 1917) J. MacKay

Original Unit - PPCLI

Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1914

Wounded - May 8, 1915, October 30, 1917

Died of wounds received at Tilloy - September 30, 1918

21647 Pte. J. MacKay

Original Unit - 11th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1915

Struck off strength - January 26, 1919

579 Pte.-Cpl. Lieut. (December 10, 1917) M. MacKay, MacK

Original Unit - PPCLI

Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1914

Wounded - April 28, 1915

Died of wounds received near Monchy - August 26, 1918

104435 Pte. M. A. McKay

Original Unit - 68th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field - June 10, 1916

Struck off strength - September 11, 1916

Subsequent service - Canadian Railway Troops

884 Pte. N. McKay

Original Unit - PPCLI

Joined PPCLI in the field - September, 1914

Wounded - May 8, 1915

Struck off strength - May 12, 1915

Subsequent service - Canadian Army Medical Corps

1735 Pte. T. McKay

Original Unit - PPCLI

Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1914

Struck off strength - March, 1915

769531 Pte. T. MacKay

Original Unit - 124th Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field - January 1, 1917

Killed at Tilloy - September 30, 1918

411110 Pte. W. McKay

Original Unit - 1st University Battalion

Joined PPCLI in the field - July 28, 1915

Struck off strength - July 30, 1916

Subsequent service - Lieut., C.E.F

Garth

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mordac

Hi Ken:

Just had a quick look at the nominal roll for the 16th Battalion (Canadian Scottish). There are 22 McKay/MacKay's listed. I guess that's not surprising. ;)

The 13th Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada) honour roll, which list those KIA or missing, have four on their list.

Garth

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mordac

Hi Ken:

I did a cross check with our lists on the National Archives of Canada web site. Here's the results.

From my list:

51321 Daniel Joseph McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

105927 David William McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

1683 John MacKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

21647 James McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

579 MacKay, MacKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

104435 Malcolm Angus McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

884 (546) Neil McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

1735 Thomas McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

769531 Thomas MacKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

411110 Walter McKay

His attestation papers can be found here.

From your list:

14 John McKay

Died in military hospital, Quebec - September 13, 1914

His attestation papers can be found here.

579 MacKay, MacKay (above)

884 (546) Neil McKay (above) correct number is 884 not 889

1683 John MacKay (above)

51321 Daniel Joseph McKay (above)

105927 David William McKay (above)

475927 James Edward MacKay

Originally with the 3rd University Company

His attestation papers can be found here.

769531 Thomas MacKay

Originally with the 124th Battalion

His attestation papers can be found here.

Garth

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