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Remembered Today:

My Great grandfather Frederick cyril roberts


gwfrfj

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Hello all,I'm looking into my great-grandfather Frederick cyril roberts,I've hit abit of a wall with my research and am hoping that someone here might be able to help,he disembarked on 18/7/1915 with 10th battalion royal Warwickshire regiment,with service number 9772,at rank of lance corporal,at somepoint he was wounded I believe,I have a picture of him with royal warwicks cap badge and 1 good conduct stipe and a wound stripe underneath,I think,see attached.

At somepoint he was transferred to the ox and bucks light infantry with service number 50176.rank of private

Is there anyway to find out which battalion of the ox and bucks he was with,and date of transfer from his service number,is there a list of wounded soldiers,I realise this would be an extensive list however,can I learn anything else from the picture?thanks in advance.

1699687994544_8u2uww_2_0.jpg

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5 hours ago, gwfrfj said:

Hello all,I'm looking into my great-grandfather Frederick cyril roberts,I've hit abit of a wall with my research and am hoping that someone here might be able to help,he disembarked on 18/7/1915 with 10th battalion royal Warwickshire regiment,with service number 9772,at rank of lance corporal,at somepoint he was wounded I believe,I have a picture of him with royal warwicks cap badge and 1 good conduct stipe and a wound stripe underneath,I think,see attached.

At somepoint he was transferred to the ox and bucks light infantry with service number 50176.rank of private

Is there anyway to find out which battalion of the ox and bucks he was with,and date of transfer from his service number,is there a list of wounded soldiers,I realise this would be an extensive list however,can I learn anything else from the picture?thanks in advance.

1699687994544_8u2uww_2_0.jpg

Hi gwfrfj.

As I'm sure you are aware Frederick's 1914-1915 Start and Victory Medal / British War Medal don't record his Ox and Bucks battalion. The latter has Frederick serving in 1st Battalion, RWR, as his last with that regiment. 

What I did notice was the writing on his Medal Index Card which appears to say 1/(something) Ox Bux LI which could mean 1/4 Battalion or 1/1 Buckingham Battalion. 

I'm not sure whether it was commonplace for a soldier to transfer from a regular unit such as the 1st Battalion, RWR to a TF battalion such as the 1/4 or 1/1 Ox and Bucks but the writing may suggest that.

Gunner 87

 

Image courtesy of Ancestry. 

D5582132-5B4F-4717-B879-227D1C4FFEE8.jpeg

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9 hours ago, gwfrfj said:

at somepoint he was wounded I believe

From Fold3

Full Name Roberts, F C

Incident Date 21 Aug 1915

Further Information This man was entitled to wear a "Wound Stripe" as authorised under Army Order 204 of 6th July 1916. The terms of this award being met by their naming in this list.

Information Listed as "Wounded" on the Casualty List issued by the War Office from 21st August 1915.

Rank Name Lance Corporal

Service Number 9772

Duty Location France and Flanders

Service British Army

Primary Unit Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Secondary Unit 10th Battalion

 

Also

Full Name Roberts, Frederick

Age 22

Index Number of Admission 265

Information Transferred from sick convoy No. 29 Ambulance Train.

Rank Name Private

Service Number 9772

Months with Field Force 1 year

Years Service 2 years

Ailment Acute nephritis severe

Date of Admission for Original Ailment 12 Jul 1917

Number of Days Under Treatment 8

Number/Designation of Ward M

Notes written in Observations Column Arras 05/07/1917. No. 42 Casualty Clearing Station.

Religion Church of England

Regiment Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Battalion 16th Battalion

 

George

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Thankyou both for the amazing information,has given me alot more to look at,can't thankyou enough for taking the time to look into it for me.

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Sorry that I cannot turn up any more at the moment.

Do you have access to Ancestry or Find My Past?

George

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You've found alot more than I could have hoped for so thankyou so much,some really interesting information.I don't at the moment unfortunately,have had ancestry previously however, planning on subscribing again when I can.thanks again George.

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From the wartime memories project:

”10th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment was formed at Warwick in September 1914 as part of Kitchener's Second New Army. They served on the Western front from July 1915 until the end of the Great War as part of 57th Brigade, 19th (Western) Division.”

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His star medal roll lists him as being with the 10th RWR and his disembarkation date being 18th July 1915 into France.  As such he likely came accross with the original Bn.  A war diary check would confirm when they arrived in France. The document also states he was discharged as 50176 on 30 April 1920.

His BWM and VM roll has  him moving around a bit. The 3rd Bn was the UK based training/admin Bn where he was likely posed after wounding for administrative purposes.  This was an Ox and Bucks medal roll.  Courtesy of ancestry:

 

 

IMG_0427.jpeg

Edited by AndrewSid
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Andrewsid,thankyou very much,it seems he moved around a fair bit then,that's before moving to the ox and bucks even.eventful period for him.

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Id suggest looking at the war diary from the National Achives for the 10th Bn .  Free when logged on.

Also are you a member of a library?  You can likely find him on his Times casualty list if they provide access.

As George says he appears at least to be back in France with the 16th Bn by the Summer of 1917 as there is a hospital admission for him on the 12th of July for Hepititas. He was with D Coy of the 16th Bn.

 

 

 

Edited by AndrewSid
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Also although you will likely have to search through a few pages,  by searching here under name and number you may find an additional wounding.  You never know.

These wounded lists cover from around July 1917 to the end of the war.

 

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/144481815

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Thankyou Andrew,I downloaded the war diaries this morning so am yet to have a look,plan to spend tomorrow reading them.i shall also see if can obtain diaries for the other battalions.thankyou again so much for your help,this site and it's members is a valuable resource for people like me who aren't to sure what there doing with research,it helps massively.thankyou,got some reading to do now. 

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As you say plenty to get stuck into.  Don’t forget his casualty report listing of 21 Aug 1915 was the report date not the wounding date.  That would have been around 4 weeks earlier.  With the diary and casualty list it may be possible to tie down the action.  Looks like he was wounded very early on with his time with the 10th Bn in France. 

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Thankyou,I will make a note of that for when I'm looking threw the diary.hopefully will be a rewarding search.thankyou.

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12 hours ago, gwfrfj said:

Is there anyway to find out which battalion of the ox and bucks he was with,and date of transfer from his service number

Th Ox and Bucks LI number is in a series allocated in October 1919 to men compulsorily transferred to the 2/4th Battalion in Egypt where they remained on Garrison Duty until early 1920.

e.g.

50165 Hoyland  6/10/1919 (ex Worcesters)

50176 Roberts   ?

50197 Butcher   8/10/19 (ex Sherwood Foresters)

How and when he went to Egypt in the absence of a service record is difficult to record, but my guess is that it was post Armistice..

Pte Butcher, for example, was an eighteen year old conscript who it appears took advantage of the Bounty Scheme to re-enlist and was posted to the 2nd Battalion Sherwood Foresters (having previously served in the 10th Battalion of that Regiment) embarking to Egypt on the 15.9.1919 for duty with the 2nd Battalion.  At this time the Army was reverting to a peacetime structure and regular battalions were being sent out to the Empire for policing duties as before the war.  On landing in Egypt he was compulsorily transferred to the 2/4th OBLI. Shortly after landing he was placed sick and repatriated a couple of months later.

There is an online history of the 2/4th OBLI online but it ends in France.

" In March several large drafts of officers and men, to replace all those who had been, or would be, demobilised, joined the Battalion, which, after a pause at Le Tréport and some leave, sailed for Egypt. Thither my story does not follow it."

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/20395/pg20395-images.html

No war diary and posting not relevant as to the issue of medals as it was post-Armistice. 

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Wow thankyou kenf48,it really does seem as though he had a very interesting history during the war,am surprised that he went as far as Egypt,he ended his service in 1920 so that could tie in with being over in egypt.thankyou very much for taking the time to respond,have learnt so much today about my great grandfather that I never knew.

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Morning.i have been looking at the war diary for 10th royal warwicks and I have found Fred's name mentioned in relation to his wounding,he was shot in the shoulder on Thursday 12/8/1915,somewhere along the le basse road in estaires,would anyone happen to no the map reference for the area,I have a few maps but can't find the road mentioned on any of them and am having trouble placing it amongst the chaos.thankyou all for your efforts in helping me so far.

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9 minutes ago, gwfrfj said:

Morning.i have been looking at the war diary for 10th royal warwicks and I have found Fred's name mentioned in relation to his wounding,he was shot in the shoulder on Thursday 12/8/1915,somewhere along the le basse road in estaires,would anyone happen to no the map reference for the area,I have a few maps but can't find the road mentioned on any of them and am having trouble placing it amongst the chaos.thankyou all for your efforts in helping me so far.

You could perhaps try TrenchMapper as they have a name search facility.

M

Edit: Might it not be La Bassée Road ?? - I think that turns up the D947 nowadays ??

Edited by Matlock1418
edit
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12 minutes ago, gwfrfj said:

Morning.i have been looking at the war diary for 10th royal warwicks and I have found Fred's name mentioned in relation to his wounding,he was shot in the shoulder on Thursday 12/8/1915,somewhere along the le basse road in estaires,would anyone happen to no the map reference for the area,I have a few maps but can't find the road mentioned on any of them and am having trouble placing it amongst the chaos.thankyou all for your efforts in helping me so far.

Here is a good Wikipedia page i have found about it. it seems like it was a viscous battle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_La_Bassée

Edited by TomWW1
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La Basse Rue is due south/south west of Estaires and appears to be a village on Google maps using 

Estaires, France le basse rue in the search facility

George

Sorry ignore that it appears to be something else!

Edited by George Rayner
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Theres a Rue Basse located between Estaires and Steenwerke at 50.672917, 2.760427 ???

M

Edited by Matlock1418
clarify
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2 minutes ago, gwfrfj said:

I've found rue bassee on the maps now,thankyou I think it must be the place.thankyou for your help.

I think the actual road was destroyed after the war but I’m not 100% sure 

Edited by TomWW1
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3 minutes ago, gwfrfj said:

I've found rue bassee on the maps now,thankyou I think it must be the place.

Since we have run a few locations past you - Please, can you run that exact location past us?  For information and wider reality check etc. I suppose.

M

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