Mystery pistol query....

[NorthernH]

Looking for some help on the peculiar tale of a mystery revolver…..

We’ve had an antique chest of drawers on our landing which we inherited about 25 years ago.  Recently we discovered it has a secret drawer, mostly full of junk (golf balls, books etc), and also to our surprise an old revolver pistol, which unbeknownst to us we have been walking past daily for years!

First question - Can anyone shed any light on its heritage?  It has some interesting stamp markings… A little internet searching suggests the ELG crest might mean Belgian made, stamped 1901 which could be the year of manufacture?  But it is also stamped RJ which might stand for Reichsmark Justice which could suggest it was a German issue “Reichs Justizministerium” (Reichs Justice Ministry)? Who would these have been issued to and why?  And how could it have ended up in Britain?

Second question – What do we do with it?!  I’ve found conflicting information whether it can be decommissioned or not.  The caps appear to be blanks, but obviously we will dispose of these.

Intriguingly the Scottish ancestor that the drawers came from was a young rear-gunner in the RAF during WWII and spoke several languages, including fluent German and morse code, so it is part of a rather bizarre puzzle. He never spoke about the war, but he was a firm pacifist, so not the type of person likely to have kept it for fun/interest.  That suggests it was either issued to him, or inherited from someone else.

Any info would be wonderful!  Thank you

[peregrinvs]

It looks like a pre-WWI pin fire ignition revolver. I assume it is Sec.58 obsolete calibre, so legal without an FAC.

[derekb]

I would say that it is an obsolete pin fire pistol, which is legal to own in the United Kingdom as long as you don’t fire it, it is illegal to own live ammunition.

It should be OK to own in the US and other places.

They were more often than not (but not only) manufactured in Liege in Belgium, during the 1800’s prior to centre fire cartridge system being introduced, there were some military versions but this isn’t one of them.

From memory the Liege proof mark was a star and some letters in an oval.

D.

[4thGordons]

Are there any marks on the ammunition? They look to me like .22 shot shells!

Agree it is a Belgian pin-fire revolver : here is one for sale in the UK

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/obsolete-calibre-firearms/antique-obsolete-calibre-pinfire-revolver/prod_7753.html

 

[Thewebleyman]

Can't add much other than to agree that it appears to be a Belgian pin fire revolver. Section 58 in the UK so no licence needed to possess , unless you want to actually shoot it. 

 

Regards 

[peregrinvs]

1 hour ago, 4thGordons said:

Are there any marks on the ammunition? They look to me like .22 shot shells!

The .22’s are clearly blanks and like the revolver don’t require an FAC to possess in the UK. They could just be chucked in the bin, but the more responsible thing to do would be to hand them to the police or an RFD for disposal.

I wonder if someone in the past thought the revolver could or could be made to fire them?

Edited 16 November , 2023 by peregrinvs

[MikB]

These revolvers were made in a number of calibres and there's not much to give scale. They were common in the 1860s and 70s, but tailed off as centreline rounds became established. When I saw the crimped cartridges I thought they could be .22 or .38 blanks.

Common sizes with folding triggers were 5mm and 7mm - pocket or handbag calibres.  From the grip size I'd guess 7mm but a guess is all it is.

Ammunition's effectively nonexistent nowadays AFAIK. Pinfire rounds are more difficult to handle safely and it's not surprising the design was abandoned.

Edited 16 November , 2023 by MikB

[AndyBsk]

Typical belgian proofed production of Lefaucheux type of revolver, could be various caliber 6, 7, 8mm round.

[NorthernH]

Thank you so much for all your replies, these have been really helpful!

It does appear that it's a pre-WWI pistol, so its origin is even more confusing as the relative who had it was only a youngster in the RAF during WWII so must have inherited/received/bought it from someone else.  Apparently there was mention of a 'starting pistol' (which makes sense as the caps are blanks), so it's possible it was used for school sporting events, but being so old it is a mystery how it came to travel from Belgium to the UK in the first place!

Thank you so much for all your help, much appreciated 

[AndyBsk]

Using of similar blank ammo with central or rand fire means the origin Lefauxes hammer have got a new firing pin to other position, as origin ammunition would have a pinfire directly on cartridge. There is missing the side loading lever.

Edited 26 November , 2023 by AndyBsk

[peregrinvs]

Hmmm… If someone has fiddled with it enough to fire .22 rimfire ammunition (even if only for the purpose of firing blanks) then that would probably invalidate it’s Section 58 antique status as it would no longer be an obsolete calibre. Pictures of the hammer cocked back and the chambers in the cylinder would assist.

Edited 26 November , 2023 by peregrinvs

[AndyBsk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinfire_cartridge

[MikeyH]

l have an almost identical one,  Belgian as previous replies.  Was given to me around fifty years ago.  The previous owner was of the opinion it was an Italian officers revolver from WW1.

Mike.