Pte Peter Tocher, 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders, Service N° 7595

[George Millar]

Although the Tocher family have been previously mentioned briefly in some other posts on the forum, I am doing some research on the above member of the family.

Peter Tocher was born on the 30th October 1880 in School Lane in the Woodside area of Aberdeen. Although his father is given as Peter Tocher (also known as Patrick Tocher), a Granite Quarrier in the birth record and his mother as Elspet Harper, a Wool Mill Worker, Peter is listed as being “Illegitimate”. His parents Peter & Elspet only married the following year on the 7th October 1881 in the Woodside Parish Church of Scotland. Peter was one of nine children born to Patrick & Elspet having 5 brothers & 3 sisters.

In the 1881 Scotland census, Peter was living in N° 3 School Lane in Old Machar, Aberdeen which was the residence of Jane Harper, Elspet’s mother.  Elspet was still listed as Elspet Harper in the census.

I cannot find a record of the family in the 1891 Scotland census in Ancestry but according to the Scotland’s People website they were living in the Woodside area of Aberdeen.

On the 19th June 1900 at Aberdeen Peter decided to join the Army and joined the 3rd Battalion Gordon Highlanders with a Service N° 7595, his occupation being listed as a “Driller” perhaps in the Granite industry alongside his father. After completing his initial training it seems that he was posted to Corunna Barracks in Aldershot, Hampshire as he is found here in the 1901 Census of England. Peter was posted to the 1st Battalion of the Regiment on the 15th April 1902; the 1st Battalion were in South Africa and had taken part in several actions in the Boer War before his arrival. When the 1st Battalion returned to the UK in late 1902 following their period in South Africa, Peter was then posted to the 2nd Battalion in India on the 9th December 1902. He was permitted to extend his service to complete 8 years with the colours on the 4th April 1904. Following his stint in India he returned to the UK and was transferred to the Army Reserve on the 22nd January 1909.

In the 1911 Scotland Census, Peter was living with three of his brothers Robert, George & James in the St Nicholas area of Aberdeen. His other brother John was probably still living with his parents and his other brother Alexander had died in infancy.  Peter was re-engaged on the 12th December 1912 into Section “D” of the Gordon Highlanders.

When the First World War broke out in August 1914 Peter was mobilized for service on the 5th August 1914 and he rejoined the 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders the following day on the 6th August 1914 with the same Service N°7595. He embarked for France on the 13th August 1914 along with the other members of the battalion. The battalion were heavily engaged in the Retreat from Mons and the subsequent Battle of Le Cateau and it was during the fighting between the 25th to the 27th August 1914 that many of the Gordon’s were ordered to surrender after they were entirely surrounded and in an extremely difficult situation. Among those that surrendered was Peter Tocher. However, his service record has the wrong date listed as he is listed as being a Prisoner of War on the 30th March 1916.

Peter went into captivity and remained a prisoner of war in Dulmen POW Camp in Westphalia until the end of hostilities. He was repatriated to the UK on the 3rd December 1918 but during his time in captivity he had contracted “Pulmonary Tuberculosis”. On the 6th February 1919 he was admitted to the Oldmill (Woodend) Military Hospital in Aberdeen with the problem but was then transferred to the N° 1 Scottish General Hospital in Aberdeen on the 13th March 1919. It is not known when he came out of hospital but he was eventually discharged from the Army under Para 392 (xvi) KR as being “no longer physically fit for war service” on the 9th April 1919, his address on discharge being the family home at N° 33 Charles Street in Aberdeen.

Peter returned to civilian life but being in very poor health he unfortunately died not long after his discharge on the 30th October 1923 in the City Hospital, Aberdeen at the age of 43 years old, the cause of his death being recorded as “Pulmonary Tuberculosis” caused by his war service.

As has been previously mentioned in the forum, four of Peter’s brothers also served in WW1 and unfortunately they all perished.

·        Corporal George Tocher, 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders, Service N° 1198, died from wounds on the 5th May 1915 – buried in La Clytte Cemetery, Belgium

·        Private John Tocher, 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders, Service N° 3/5147, killed in action 18th July 1916 – name recorded on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing, Somme, France

·        Private James Tocher, 8th/10th Battalion Gordon Highlanders, Service N° 10931, killed in action 31st July 1916 – name recorded on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing, Somme, France

·        Private Robert Tocher, 4th Battalion Gordon Highlanders, Service N° 5014, killed in action 15th November 1916 – buried Forceville Communal Cemetery & Extension, Somme, France

Peter (Patrick) Tocher also joined up during WW1 into the 3/4th Battalion Gordon Highlanders Territorial Force, Service N° 4171 on the 21st July 1915. On enlistment he gave his age as 40 years old when in fact he was 53 years old. He was later discharged on the 31st July 1916 under Para 392 (xvi) KR as being “no longer physically fit for war service”. The cause of his discharge was listed as “Deafness, originated at Aberdeen in 1906 and not caused by Military Service”. On discharge he was listed as “a sober & industrious man. He is cordially recommended for employment at his former occupation as a Quarryman”.

As can be seen from the above, the Tocher family really did their bit for their country and suffered greatly for it.

As for Peter Tocher, I was wondering if there is any other information that can be found out about him, perhaps even a photo that would help to complete his life story. I was wondering if he remained all of his captivity in Dulmen POW Camp or if he was transferred to other POW camps. Any information on him or the family would be appreciated.

Images courtesy of Ancestry & International Red Cross

George

[Tawhiri]

32 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Peter Tocher was born on the 30th October 1880 in School Lane in the Woodside area of Aberdeen. Although his father is given as Peter Tocher (also known as Patrick Tocher), a Granite Quarrier in the birth record and his mother as Elspet Harper, a Wool Mill Worker, Peter is listed as being “Illegitimate”.

In Scotland illegitimate births were (mostly always) registered under the mother's surname. The exception to this was if the father admitted paternity, and went with the mother to register the birth with both signing the register. In this case the child's birth would be indexed under both the mother's and father's surnames, even though there is only one birth registration. This is certainly the case for Peter, where his birth on ScotlandsPeople is indexed under both surnames, Harper and Tocher.

TOCHER	PETER		M	1880	168 / 2 / 1547	Old Machar
HARPER	PETER		M	1880	168 / 2 / 1547	Old Machar

Any subsequent marriage of the parents would then legitimize the birth, provided both parents were free to marry at the time of the child's birth.

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/research-guides/registering-illegitimate-births

[rolt968]

This is a trabscription of the 1891 Census from FindmyPast:

tocher 1891 Census.rtf

 

Ancestry struggles transcribing some Scottish surnames.

RM

[George Millar]

Tawhiri & Rolt,

Tawhiri, Many thanks for the explanation of Peter's birth record. I did find it strange that he was named Peter Tocher being "Illegitimate" and not Harper as per his mother's surname.

Rolt, Many thanks for the 1891 Scotland census info. I will add it to my info on the family. I did wonder if Ancestry had somehow got the surname wrong and why I couldn't find it.

Many thanks once again for your comments.

George

[George Millar]

Rolt,

Just noticed on looking at the 1891 Scotland Census that you supplied that there was another daughter Isabella Tocher born 1888 in Newhills that I hadn't got in my research so many thanks for that.

George

[George Millar]

Isabella Tocher died on the 23rd November 1894 aged 6 years. Cause of Death listed as "Septic Pneumonia". Image courtesy of Ancestry.

George

[charlie962]

George,

PA4386 is another index card for him, I think.

It shows him as trf to Senne on a list  datestamped 26/2/16.

Here is the header sheet and the relevant page for Tocher. The 3rd page is another sample showing other Gordon's men taken presumably same time and also mentioning Senne. You will find others on neighbouring pages.

I'm appealing to @charlie2 for help in interpretation!

Charlie962

 

Edited 6 November by charlie962

[charlie962]

What I would hope is you can find a pow statement or a newspaper report for a similarly captured/imprisoned Gordons man.

[charlie2]

33 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

I'm appealing to @charlie2 for help in interpretation

It is a list of arrivals at Dülmen, there is no information other than the date stamp of the Red Cross, so I would guess that they arrived there a couple of weeks beforehand. 
Charlie2

[charlie962]

1 minute ago, charlie2 said:

arrivals at Dülmen,

Ah,thanks,  arrivals at Dulmen. Presumably from Senne in his case?

[charlie2]

10 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Presumably from Senne in his case?

Yes, Senne > Dülmen > Münster I (Haus Spital)

Charlie2

[George Millar]

charlie 962 & charlie2,

Many thanks for the additional information. I had a look to find Bertry where peter and his felllow Gordon's surrendered and it is to the left of Le Cateau. The Senne you have mentioned I believe is the Senne region in Nordrhein-Westfalen of West Central Germany (correct me if I am wrong).

George

[charlie962]

If you search on this forum for senne AND Gordons you will find some interesting threads on pows incl a link to some album photos. 

 

[charlie2]

The camp was at Sennelager near Paderborn and not at Senne near Bielefeld.

Charlie2

[charlie962]

There's a long account given by a returning pow to his local paper of his journey into captivity. He was an A Company man rather than D.

I believe this is 670 Alexander Fleming. He starts with Sennelager, as I believe do most of the Gordon's taken at that time, and gets transferred to Dulmen June 1915. He appears on the same Dulmen list as Tocher that I've extracted above. See PA4358 (Fleming is also on a later list PA7575 Freidrischfeld). Might this suggest Tocher also transferred June 1915?

Here courtesy Findmypast and West Lothian Courrier 24/1/19.

There is more but I'm assuming that Tocher didn't go to Friedrischfeld. ( @charlie2 please correct me if I'm wrong).

Whilst looking for the above I did note a court case in 1919 about the Colonel Gordon, VC, suing a newspaper for a report that it was he who'd given the surrender order!

1 hour ago, charlie2 said:

The camp was at Sennelager near Paderborn and not at Senne near Bielefeld.

Charlie2

Crikey, was it over half a century ago that I was there??

Edited 6 November by charlie962

[charlie2]

7 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Crikey, was it over half a century ago that I was there??

Frightening isn‘t it. I made the mistake of driving up to Osnabrück last year - never go back.

Charlie

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

Frightening isn‘t it. I made the mistake of driving up to Osnabrück last year - never go back.

Charlie

😁

What about the press clipping? Do you think Tocher went elsewhere in 1916? You mentioned Munster 1. (As per PA 13227 Munster 1 list datestamped July 1917 on which Tocher appears)

I had to look up the word 'darg':

"chiefly Scottish. 1. : a day's work. 2. : a fixed amount of work : task."

Edited 7 November by charlie962

[George Millar]

charlie962 & charlie2,

Thanks once again for adding to the story. The account by Pte Fleming in the newspaper article gives more detail on their captivity and the hell they must have gone through. I'm presuming that there are no records available of the Dulmen Camp that can be accessed, probably destroyed during WW2. I'm also assuming that Peter must have had the same experience as that of Pte Fleming.

charlie962, I'll have a search of the forum that you suggested and see what other information is available.

Once again, many thanks for taking the time to comment

George

[charlie962]

18 minutes ago, George Millar said:

no records available of the Dulmen Camp that can be accessed

Have a look at this old thread that has accumulated a lot of detail and photos.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/86504-dulmen-pow-camp/page/4/

 

[George Millar]

charlie962

Many thanks for the link, there are lots of good information and photos which will help with my research on Peter.

George

[charlie962]

George, I'm sure there are other stories told by 1st Gordons men of their time in captivity.

Best sources:

- Newspaper reporting of stories told by returning soldiers. Beware journalists' tendancy to focus on the grimmer times. So typically local papers v late 1918 and early 1919. There were some seriously wounded men exchanged earlier in the war but I don't think they were encouraged to talk.

- the rare official interviews with returning or escaped pows. I cannot remember the National Archives ref but there was a lengthy index and then a print of selected stories. I think findmypast has scanned them but could be wrong. Sometimes very lengthy accounts.

Charlie

Do let us know what you find please.

[George Millar]

Thanks Charlie

Unfortunately I don't have a subscription with Find my past but I will check out the National Archives and see what I can come up with. On further research on the Tocher family I have found that Peter's sister Helen Tocher married George Gordon on the 31st December 1903 in the Stoneywood Church of Scotland, Aberdeen.  She was 18 and he only 19 years old when they married.  George Gordon was born in 1884 in Old Macher, Aberdeen and on the outbreak of war attested also into the Gordon Highlanders with a Service N° 2090.  He was posted to the 4th Battalion of the Territorial Force.  His military service didn't last long as he was discharged on the 12th March 1915 under Para 392 (iii cc) KR as "not likely to become an efficient soldier".   The cause of his discharge was listed as "Tuberculosis of the Lung, not caused by military service", (he never served overseas). However, it seems that he must have joined up again as there is a Pension Ledger & Index Card which shows him with the Royal Defence Corps, Service N° 16123 (Sorry I only have the transcript of the card attached). His Pension Card listed him as having died on the 30th October 1917 (he would have been about 33 years old) . I cannot find him listed in the CWGC site and in the Scotland's People website there are three George Gordon's listed as having died in 1917 with an age near to that he would have been. They are as follows:

1) George Gordon - died 1917 aged 33 Rubislaw

2) George Andrew Gordon - died 1917 aged 35 Service Returns 

3) George Strachan Gordon - died 1917 age unknown Service Returns

Do you think that if he was serving with the Royal Defence Corps that he should have been recorded in the CWGC site?

[charlie962]

I remember these statements are at NA under WO 161 series. Very few were printed up.

An example is Alexander Reid, 7593 captured 27/8/14. He made a lengthy statement. He was also awarded a pow MM. He seems to have remained at Sennelager a lot longer than Fleming?

Lt Col Neish also has a statement.

Edited 7 November by charlie962

[charlie962]

9 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Royal Defence Corps, Service N° 16123 (Sorry

He had an SWB card showing attested 3/12/15, discharged 10/8/16 sickness. So not in service when he died.

Nat Archives

Edited 7 November by charlie962

[George Millar]

Charlie,

Thanks for the reference in the National Archives, I'll go through them and see what I can come up with. As regards George Gordon, I don't know why I didn't find anything on him before but I've now found a Pension Record for him and an "Army Register of Soldiers Effects" document. As you say, he died after discharge from N° 205 Protection Company, Royal Defence Corps. After discharge he was attending the Local Tuberculosis Dispensary, City Hospital, Aberdeen so possibly he could have died in the hospital. requires further research. It seems strange that he was able to join up again after being discharged in 1915 with the same condition.