Francis Eyre (AVC) SE/6807

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Hello, I've discovered quite a lot about my 2nd Great Grandfather Francis Eyre. He was a Pte in the Army Veterinary Corps and served during WW1 between 1915-1920. 

 Francis was medically discharged and recieved a Silver war badge. However, I do not know which part of the AVC he served in and cannot find it listed anywhere. 

 Could I please gain some assistance in discovering where he was attached as part of the AVC. 

 Thank you. 

Edited 27 October , 2023 by LCpl Lee Cope

[charlie962]

You see he has an SE number for special enlistment. Short notice, men already very experienced in horse keeping.

Attested 20/4/15 and in France just over a week later. Other threads on this forum have discussed this.

[charlie962]

The problem is finding a unit.

You could look for other men who have the same landing date on the medal roll. You can look for near service numbers, men who volunteered at the same time. But once they landed in France they could be dispersed widely, such was the urgent need. So no comfortable conclusion can be drawn from such an exercise, I think. 

Charlie

[charlie962]

Could he have been a pony driver in the pits when he was younger, like two of his sons shown in 1911 census?

[LCpl Lee Cope]

On 27/10/2023 at 10:21, charlie962 said:

Could he have been a pony driver in the pits when he was younger, like two of his sons shown in 1911 census?

Hello and thank you for your interest. Francis was a malsters labourer in the 1901 census, but when he was married, he's listed on the marriage document as a carter. I can only assume that Francis had plenty of experiance with horses and that led to a call up to the AVC. I'll take a look into similar serial numbers and posting dates on Ancestry. 

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Hello, I've searched the ancestry militaty databases for any soldier listed in the AVC with a serial number close to SE/6807.

I came across a few, although most, if not all simply list the soldier as "AVC" with no apparent attached veterinary hospital.

I also found it interesting that a lot of these AVC soldiers were posted and then transferred to the Royal Artillery, which I think 'may' hinder my search for docments relating to my 2nd Great Grandfather: Pte Francis Eyre, SE/6807.

 I have a sneaky suspicion that he 'may' have been posted to the: #02 Veterinary Hospital, Woolwich, and I'm only assuming this, as the closest AVC soldier I could find within Francis's time frame/serial number was: Pte James Freeman, SE/6875.

This soldiers details are as follows: 

Attested and posted: 19/04/1915 as a horse keeper. 

Joined the Exp Force: 29/04/15.

Was back home: 18/11/1915.

Again, joined the Exp Force: 21/01/1916.

Demobilized: 10/03/1919.

 Would everybody agree that I'm following the best route, in finding info that may be similar/close to Francis's time during WW1. With no surviving enlistment/pension record, it's pretty hard.

 If I am... where would be the best place to look for more info on the #02 Veterinary Hospital?

Edited 21 November , 2023 by LCpl Lee Cope

[charlie962]

It's an exercise worth carrying out because the basic principle can be applied to other men in other Regiments.

As I mentioned earlier, the problem with these AVC special enlistments is that they were so urgently needed that they were sent to France immediately and dispersed to a wide variety of units -anywhere there were horses.

Hospitals, transport units (Army Service Corps, Horse Field and Garrison Artillery etc)

The result is that you will find it almost impossible to reach a conclusion with reasonable probability. Just possibility. However you will have a much better understanding of the paths followed by such men, and the importance of their role,  which may help you write up his story (and you may get hooked on this research!)

But keep at it.

Charlie

Edited 21 November , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, LCpl Lee Cope said:

where would be the best place to look for more info on the #02 Veterinary Hospital

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/army-veterinary-corps-in-the-first-world-war/

[charlie962]

Generally these men's records give little clue of overseas units. 

There is always a chance of a lucky strike but..

A couple more of those AVC men who went to France 29/4/15:

Arthur Norfolk, 33yrs old from Suffolk. SE/6858.. Attested 23/4/15, joined AVC Depot Woolwich 24/4/15 as a Horse keeper. To France 29/4/15, returned home 1/11/15, discharge permanently unfit 10/2/16. Only clue as to his work in France is ' on account of his inability to walk he was put on duty tending horses on a farm'. No idea what unit.

Edgar Sands, 45 years old, SE/6833.. Attested 22/4/15,  France 29/4/15, discharged 6/12/17 no longer physically fit. Cannot see,a unit for him!

Walter Cain , 42 years old from Mile End,  SE/6868. Attest 23/4/15, joined Woolwich AVC Depot 24/4/15, France 29/4/15.  By the time he was discharged in 1918 he was at No4 Veterinary Hospital (Calais?) but goodness knows where he was in between.

I do believe Eyres's near numbers started off at Woolwich Depot AVC.

They would most probably be sent from there to the AVC Base Depot at Rouen (this from the LongLongTrail), France from where they would be dispersed to a variety of units.

 

 

 

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Thank you for your support in learning more. So, the 2nd Mobile Veterinary Section was part of the 1st Division and Pte Francis Eyre was deployed to them on the 20th Apr 1915. I can only assume that he wasn't redeployed to any other regiment, until proven otherwise, and that he was with them until his discharge due to dibility on the 07th Dec 1917.

• The Battle of Aubers (9 May)

Commanded by Major-General A. E. A. Holland from 11 September 1915

• The Battle of Loos (September-October)

1916

Commanded by Major-General E. P. Strickland from 12 June 1916

• The Battles of the Somme 1916:
  • The Battle of Albert (July)
  • The Battle of Bazentin (July)
  • The Battle of Pozieres (July-September)
  • The Battle of Flers-Courcelette (September)
  • The Battle of Morval (September)

1917

• The British pursuit of the German retreat to the Hindenburg Line (March-April)
• The 1st Division was warned to prepare for an operation along the Belgian coast in summer 1917. It moved to the Dunkirk area for specialist training and occupied part of the front line east of Nieuwpoort. Several mobile units were attached in readiness. The operation was cancelled when the initial assaults in the Third Battle of Ypres failed to progress as expected.
• The Third Battles of Ypres:
  • The Second Battle of Passchendaele (October-November)

 

 That's a hell of a lot of war! Would I be safe in assuming that he was present and supporting in all of those battles?

 

 

Edited 22 November , 2023 by LCpl Lee Cope

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, LCpl Lee Cope said:

, the 2nd Mobile Veterinary Section was part of the 1st Division and Pte Francis Eyre was deployed to them on the 20th Apr 1915. I can only assume that he wasn't reldeployed to any other regiment, until proven otherwise, and that he was with them until his discharge d

That is not what I am saying at all?

He was posted to the AVC Depot at Woolwich to get the paperwork and clothing done then sent to AVC Base Depot in France from where he could have been sent anywhere. We don't know. Furthermore the probability that he remained with the same AVC unit for two years is questionable.

Extremely frustrating for you (and me) but there it is.

Charlie

[LCpl Lee Cope]

Hello, I have found this record, but I don't know what all the abbreviations and numbers mean. Could this shed any more light on where Francis Eyre went once deployed with the RAVC?

Edited 17 January by LCpl Lee Cope

[LCpl Lee Cope]

 I've managed to locate my 2nd Great Grandfather's grave at York Rd Cemetery in Church Gresley.

Pte Francis Eyre.

 Sadly, even though his health was always affected after his war service, he never received a war grave.

 I can only imagine that he originally had a wooden cross. So, I've emailed the CWGC in the hope that they'll listen to my case for a war grave, but in the mean time I'll get a wooden cross and ensure that his grave is marked. 

 Such a shame that he served during WW1 during The Battle of the Somme and the 2nd battle of Passchendaele and nobody would ever know that he ever existed. 😞 

Edited 17 January by LCpl Lee Cope