Lt. Col. Howell Richard Jones-Williams 3rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers

[GWF1967]

Hi,

 I have a photo postcard featuring Lt. Col Jones - Williams, I believe him to be Howell Richard Jones -Williams ( Jones Williams).

 I have found a Medal Index Card, but cannot seem to find the corresponding medal roll, nor can I find any London Gazette military records of promotion. Any help digging would be greatly appreciated.

Edited 27 October , 2023 by GWF1967

[PRC]

The British Army Monthly List for August 1914 shows him as a Lieutenant Colonel H.R. Jones-Williams of the 3rd Battalion, with seniority from the 15th July 1912. It also notes that he was an Honorary Captain in Army effective 18th October 1900. (Column 1116). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103631546

Going back to Harts Annual Army List for 1912, Major Howell R. Jones Williams, 3rd Battalion, is shown with seniority from the 13th June 1903, again referencing that he was an Honorary Captain in Army effective 18th October 1900. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100702654

The 3rd Battalion (Reserve) was formed from the Militia Battalions in 1908 - the old Militia 3rd Battalion (Royal Denbigh and Marioneth Rifles) and the Militia 4th Battalion, (Royal Carnarvon Rifles). The Harts Annual Army List for 1903 shows Captain Howell R. Jones-Williams with seniority from the 7th January 1885 and serving with the Militia 4th Battalion. His entry is also noted Honorary Major but with no date shown. The 4th Battalion it notes was embodied on the 11th May 1900 and disembodied 17th October 1900 - hence I suspect the date of his appointment as an Honorary Captain in the Army for seniority purposes. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100642086

The 1891 Census of England & Wales has a 28 year old unmarried Howell R.J. Williams, born Brecon, "Brecknockshire", recorded as the head of the household at Cen(?)* Park, Talybont, Breconshire. His occupation is listed as "Captain 4th Batt. R.W.F + J.P. Breconshire".

*Version of the schedule I  can see is very dark in the address area and Google isn't suggesting any reasonable matches - not helped by the number of caravan parks in the locality!

Does that get you started?

Cheers,
Peter

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Does that get you started?

Cheers,
Peter

Many thanks Peter.  The links to Harts are greatly appreciated. 
 He was listed as a Captain: Militia Infantry 4th R.W.F.  - Western Daily Press 7/1/1885  -  appointed Sheriff W.D.P 13/11/1995. 
 He married Constance Lara (Laura) Frances Travers 28/9/1892. 
 The family home was Cui (Cwy) Park, Tal-Y-Bont.  
 H.R.J. Williams died in 1927, and was buried 31/12/1927. 
 I’m still unable to locate a medal roll for him, or military promotions listed in the London Gazette - though my L.G. skills are not great. 

[Ron da Valli]

Here is his medal index card. Bottom right of the page.

WO-372-21-192338.pdf

[GWF1967]

24 minutes ago, Ron da Valli said:

Here is his medal index card. Bottom right of the page.

WO-372-21-192338.pdf 1.33 MB · 2 downloads

Thanks Ron,

 I have his MIC , it’s his medal roll I’m unable to find. The MIC has no address or date that he claimed his medals, would this suggest that they went unclaimed?

[PRC]

3 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

The MIC has no address or date that he claimed his medals, would this suggest that they went unclaimed?

My understanding, which may be incorrect, is that for Officers a Roll entry would not have been prepared if there wasn't a claim.  And there is nothing to suggest the medals were subsequently returned.  

I don't subscribe to Ancestry but I've just done a search of all Military records with the criteria:-

First & Middle Names = Howell Richard
Last Name = Jones Williams
The exact match box on both search criteria was left unticked.

And I then drilled down to the category Awards and Decorations of Honour and from that chosen the dataset “UK World War 1 Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920”, and the first match it offers is an H.R. Jones Williams. Although the contents of the fields are blurred out for us non-subscribers, that for his regimental number is a blank, indicating we are looking at an officer.

Image courtesy of Ancestry

As I don’t subscribe I can’t post a link, and so apologies in an advance firstly if it’s a red herring and secondly if I'm "teaching granny to suck eggs".

I suspect that as he was entitled to the British War Medal only he might be on a separate part of the Roll – that’s certainly my experience with many of the officers of the Garrison Battalions of the Norfolk Regiment and the Suffolk Regiment.

Hope that helps,
Peter

Edited 27 October , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[GWF1967]

28 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

As I don’t subscribe I can’t post a link, and so apologies in an advance firstly if it’s a red herring and secondly if I'm "teaching granny to suck eggs".
 

Hope that helps,
Peter

Well granny had another go at the egg 🥚  - This time with markedly different results. 
 I’d searched for him by Jones - Williams (Nearest match - Lt.H. Jones-Williams), used Jones as a middle name and H.R.J. Williams. I also tried just inputting “Lt. Colonel  + Royal Welsh Fusiliers”.
 I looked on National Archives records to find him listed as - Colonel- South Wales Borderers.

Using “H.R. Jones Williams”, and as you say, top of the list. 

 Many thanks for your time Peter. 
 

Edited 27 October , 2023 by GWF1967

[PRC]

@GWF1967

Just to confirm my PM.

The 1885 notice of his promotion to Captain appears in the edition of The Times dated Wednesday, January 7th 1885 and is from the London Gazette, Tuesday 6th 1885. Wikipedia has that edition as Issue 25430 and the entry in question is on page 71, (right hand column, second entry). https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/25430/page/71

The 1903 notice of him making Major appears in the edition of The Times dated Saturday, June 13, 1903 and is from the London Gazette of Friday, June 12^th, 1903. Via Wikipedia that leads to London Gazette issue 27563 and page 3715. (right hand column, about three quarters of the way down). https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/27563/page/3715

And his promotion to Lieutenant Colonel is in the edition of The Times dated Saturday October 12th 1912 and is from the London Gazette of Friday, October 11th, 1912. That is Issue 28652 according to the Wikipedia page on the London Gazette's of 1912. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:London_Gazette_Index/19/1912

Relevant page is 7490. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28652/page/7490/data.pdf

Cheers,
Peter