Uniform ID?

[adbw]

Can someone identify this uniform?  The photo was apparently taken towards the end of WW1 and suggestions so far have been that it's Royal Marines or Royal Engineers.

Many thanks

Adam

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. I’d say the photo was mid 19th century, definitely not Great War. 

[PRC]

Probably one for @FROGSMILE

On the 1871 Census of England & Wales there is a 47 year old Augustus F. Vogel, born Prussia and a Photographer, who was recorded at 31 Brunswick Road, West Derby. Liverpool.
On the 1881 Census of England & Wales the 56 year old Prussia born photographer Augustus F. Vogel was recorded at 10 Faraday Street, Everton, Liverpool.
And on the 1891 Census of England & Wales the 67 year old "August" F. Vogel, a photographer born Prussia and now a naturalised British citizen was recorded at 25 Wylva Road, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire. He was neither an employer or an employee, (so a self employed one man band).

He is not on earlier censuses as far as I can tell and after 1891 he disappears - which is probably explained by the death of a "78" year old August Frederick Vogel which was recorded in the West Derby civil registration District in the October to December quarter of 1898.

Trade directories may give you a better idea of when he was operating and whether a studio bearing his name continued to operate - he may have sold the business along with his name and trade goodwill during his lifetime. But there don't seem to be many examples of his work \ the studios work that have survived and almost nothing in lists of Victorian photographers, so I suspect he was active in the Liverpool area in the 1860's to 1880's.

Cheers,
Peter

Edit  - and welcome to the forum @adbw

Edited 20 October , 2023 by PRC
Greetings and salutations

[FROGSMILE]

He’s a sergeant of a Lancashire Rifle Volunteer Corps (part-time citizen soldier), probably from a Liverpool area unit as the photographers studio wasn’t usually far away from the unit’s drill hall.

We can assume his uniform is dark (rifle) green because he has a black, patent leather pouch belt, as worn by volunteer sergeants instead of the red sash worn by regular line units.  I’d date the photo to between 1880 and 1890.

Edited 20 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

I think I can see a Harp of Erin in the centre of his shako plate which would make his unit the Liverpool Irish.  Below is the silver “pouch belt plate” that you can see in the centre of his chest.  Also the shako worn between 1869 and 1878, whose badge subsequently remained unchanged and which you can see in subject photo.

Liverpool's large Irish Irish community formed the 64th Lancashire Rifle Volunteer Corps on 25 April 1860, one of many raised across Britain in response to heightened tensions with France. The Liverpool Irish became a volunteer (later territorial) battalion of the King's (Liverpool) Regiment in July 1881 and as such, it fought in the Second Boer War.

There was a single drill hall for all the unit’s companies (A to H plus Batt HQ) at 75, Shaw Street, Liverpool.

During the First World War, its two deployed battalions were involved in numerous battles that included those at Givenchy, Guillemont, Third Ypres, Cambrai, and the Hundred Days Offensive of 1918. More than 900 Liverpool Irishmen were killed during the war time period.  The regiment was disbanded in 1922, but reraised for WW2.

See also: 

 

Edited 20 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[adbw]

Thank you all very much - a wealth of expertise, as expected!  There is a very definite Irish connection here, so that makes a lot of sense.  I'll pass this on to the family, who will be very interested in your comments.

Many thanks again

Adam

[PRC]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

He’s a sergeant of a Lancashire Rifle Volunteer Corps (part-time citizen soldier), probably from a Liverpool area unit as the photographers studio wasn’t usually far away from the unit’s drill hall.

1 hour ago, PRC said:

On the 1871 Census of England & Wales there is a 47 year old Augustus F. Vogel, born Prussia and a Photographer, who was recorded at 31 Brunswick Road, West Derby. Liverpool.

For us non-locals \ lacking local knowledge, here's an indication courtesy of Google Maps of the proximity of Shaw Street and Brunswick Road.

Image courtesy Google Maps.

Unfortunately couldn't turn up a trade directory covering Liverpool in the 1870's or 1880's from free sources - there may be some on the likes of Ancestry and FindMyPast. That will tell you if Augustus Vogel was trading from his home address or ran a separate premise as his studio.

Cheers,
Peter

[adbw]

Thanks again, Peter - all very useful info.

Adam