Walter Andrews - Warwicks Regiment - British Expeditionary Forces

[Young_dirk]

I'm curious about researching British Expeditionary Forces records. I came across this letter some time ago from my great-grandfather (dated 6 Feb 1918). In it, he mentions his step-brother, Walter Andrews, who is serving in the British Expeditionary Forces, stationed in Italy, at the time. The only record I have been able to find on him is a pension record that I assume could be his because the birth year is the same, but it mentions that the service region was "South West" (doesn't sound like Italy to me).

Anyway, I have his name as Walter Andrews, b. ~1881, d. unsure if during the war. Letter says he was in 'C' Company, 2nd Battalion, Warwicks (Warwickshire?) Regiment. I've added the letter for convenience, but if you have any ideas on where to dig up records, I'm all ears. Thanks!

[busterfield]

Does service number 1418 match the record you looked at?

Long long trail gives movements for battalion.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-warwickshire-regiment/

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Young_dirk said:

Walter Andrews, b. ~1881, d. unsure if during the war. Letter says he was in 'C' Company, 2nd Battalion, Warwicks (Warwickshire?) Regiment.

Letter also gives his number as 1418.

This turns up a MIC for a BWM & VM [so in a ToW after 31/12/1915] - the medal roll for this card potentially will give his battalion(s) at entry and potentially after.

Then you should be able to look to The National Archive for a War Diary(ies) for general details.

Here is the search for 2RWR https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_q="2+battalion"+"Royal+Warwickshire"+"WO+95"

M

Edited 26 September by Matlock1418
strike

[Young_dirk]

29 minutes ago, busterfield said:

Does service number 1418 match the record you looked at?

Long long trail gives movements for battalion.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-warwickshire-regiment/

No, there's no 1418 on there. Just a Unit/Regiment number of 51230

13 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Letter also gives his number as 1418.

This turns up a MIC for a BWM & VM [so in a ToW after 31/12/1915] - the medal roll for this card potentially will give his battalion(s) at entry and potentially after.

Then you should be able to look to The National Archive for a War Diary(ies) for general details.

Here is the search for 2RWR https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_q="2+battalion"+"Royal+Warwickshire"+"WO+95"

M

Honestly, I had no clue that 1418 was the service number. 

Thank you both for the direction and information. I should have a better chance at narrowing things down now. I'll post back if I figure out what happened to Walter.

[Allan1892]

23 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

This turns up a MIC for a BWM & VM [so in a ToW after 31/12/1915] - the medal roll for this card potentially will give his battalion(s) at entry and potentially after.

The MIC for Walter Andrews #1418 states that he entered a ToW on the 22 August 1914 (medal rolls states same date) and awarded the 1914 Star; BWM and VM (MIC image courtesy of Ancestry)

[Allan1892]

In his letter, he mentions that he has been awarded the MC -- I have searched for this award and can not find anything.

[Matlock1418]

21 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

The MIC for Walter Andrews #1418 states that he entered a ToW on the 22 August 1914 (medal rolls states same date) and awarded the 1914 Star; BWM and VM (MIC image courtesy of Ancestry)

My apologies to all - A comple load of horlicks by me about only BWM & VM etc. - Mind all over the place today with other matters. Sorry.  Edit: Have struck through the incorrect part of my post above.

So as Allan has indicated - 1914 Star and BWM & VM from 22/8/14.  The lack of ToW and the 1914 Star would suggest France & Flanders and this would generally seem to match 1RWR

M

Edited 26 September by Matlock1418
edit and correct.

[Young_dirk]

12 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

In his letter, he mentions that he has been awarded the MC -- I have searched for this award and can not find anything.

The M.C. was awarded to Lieutenant Robert Andrews (not Private Walter Andrews). Entry can be found at London Gazette No. 30780, dated 5JUL1918

[Matlock1418]

1RWR WD at TNA - Search result: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_q="1+battalion"+"Royal+Warwickshire"+"WO+95"

M

[PRC]

If he went out to France in August 1914 then he was a pre-war Regular.

At that time the standard practice was for the the Regular Army Battalions of a typical County Regiment to share a common number service number, (the Special Reserve had their own, as did usually each Territorial Force Battalion). Typically numbers were issued up to 9999 and then reverted to 1, although of course there were execptions.

But according to Paul Nixon's Army Service number site, the regular army battalions of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment did follow this pattern, reaching 9999 in late 1903 \ early 1904, and then going back to 1. They would previously have issued 1418 back in 1885/86.

This time round they would have issued service number 1418 at some point between the 11th August 1908, (1152) and the 13th December 1909, (1493).
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/roayl-warwickshire-regiment-regular.html

The standard short service enlistment of 12 years was for an Infantrymen at that time normally split into 7 years in the colours, (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7, receiving full pay, board and lodgings, clothing and medical care), and 5 years in the reserves, (i.e. back in civvy street, subject to military discipline only when receiving refersher training, receiving half pay, access to medical care and liable to immediate recall in the event of a national emergency such as war).

So I would expect to find him on one of the 1911 Censuses still serving - Garrisons around the British Empire were recorded on the Census of England & Wales.

1 hour ago, Young_dirk said:

I have his name as Walter Andrews, b. ~1881

However an 1881 birth would be right up the top end age wise for a first enlistment in the British Army in probably 1909 - he would have been pushing 40 by the time his 12 years were up and that would have been something that would have been taken into account. If his health broke down while he was serving the Army could be liable for a pension. So it may be that he transferred in.

Do you have a likely place of birth for him at all?

Cheers,
Peter

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Young_dirk said:

No, there's no 1418 on there. Just a Unit/Regiment number of 51230

Not sure which record you are looking at.  ???

There is a MIC for a Walter G ANDREWS, and a pension index card for Walter George ANDREWS, 51230, Dorsetshire Regiment but this would seem not to be the Walter ANDREWS, 1418, RWR, of the letter.

M

Edit:  Perhaps especially for Texans [and perhaps others]: The Devonshire Regiment was the county regiment of the county of Devon in South West England [remember that reference to the SW you mentioned?] - so I suspect that record should be discarded!

Edited 26 September by Matlock1418
edit

[Young_dirk]

5 minutes ago, PRC said:

If he went out to France in August 1914 then he was a pre-war Regular.

At that time the standard practice was for the the Regular Army Battalions of a typical County Regiment to share a common number service number, (the Special Reserve had their own, as did usually each Territorial Force Battalion). Typically numbers were issued up to 9999 and then reverted to 1, although of course there were execptions.

But according to Paul Nixon's Army Service number site, the regular army battalions of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment did follow this pattern, reaching 9999 in late 1903 \ early 1904, and then going back to 1. They would previously have issued 1418 back in 1885/86.

This time round they would have issued service number 1418 at some point between the 11th August 1908, (1152) and the 13th December 1909, (1493).
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/roayl-warwickshire-regiment-regular.html

The standard short service enlistment of 12 years was for an Infantrymen at that time normally split into 7 years in the colours, (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7, receiving full pay, board and lodgings, clothing and medical care), and 5 years in the reserves, (i.e. back in civvy street, subject to military discipline only when receiving refersher training, receiving half pay, access to medical care and liable to immediate recall in the event of a national emergency such as war).

So I would expect to find him on one of the 1911 Censuses still serving - Garrisons around the British Empire were recorded on the Census of England & Wales.

However an 1881 birth would be right up the top end age wise for a first enlistment in the British Army in probably 1909 - he would have been pushing 40 by the time his 12 years were up and that would have been something that would have been taken into account. If his health broke down while he was serving the Army could be liable for a pension. So it may be that he transferred in.

Do you have a likely place of birth for him at all?

Cheers,
Peter

This is fascinating information. Thank you!

 

The 1891 and 1901 census' have him born in Staffordshire and Wolverhampton, Staffordshire respectively.

[Matlock1418]

7 minutes ago, Young_dirk said:

The 1891 and 1901 census' have him born in Staffordshire and Wolverhampton, Staffordshire respectively.

If you have his mother's maiden name then it should be relatively easy to find/confirm his birth registration at the General Register Office [Potentially famous last words! ]

M

Edit: I'm looking at a possibility

ANDREWS, WALTER    HIGGOTT [Mothers Maiden Surname]  GRO Reference: 1881  D Quarter [i.e. Oct/Nov/Dec] in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 519 = ???

Edited 26 September by Matlock1418
edit

[Young_dirk]

27 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

If you have his mother's maiden name then it should be relatively easy to find/confirm his birth registration at the General Register Office [Potentially famous last words! ]

M

Edit: I'm looking at a possibility

ANDREWS, WALTER    HIGGOTT [Mothers Maiden Surname]  GRO Reference: 1881  D Quarter [i.e. Oct/Nov/Dec] in WOLVERHAMPTON  Volume 06B  Page 519 = ???

Yes, that's him. I just got the actual document. He was born 26 Oct 1881

[charlie962]

Ancestry copy of the BWM/VM Roll shows 1st then 2nd Bn service.

Charlie

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Ancestry copy of the BWM/VM Roll shows 1st then 2nd Bn service.

Result!  - I knew 1RWR had to be his first at landing in August 1914

M

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

This time round they would have issued service number 1418 at some point between the 11th August 1908, (1152) and the 13th December 1909, (1493).
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/09/roayl-warwickshire-regiment-regular.html

The standard short service enlistment of 12 years was for an Infantrymen at that time normally split into 7 years in the colours, (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7, receiving full pay, board and lodgings, clothing and medical care), and 5 years in the reserves, (i.e. back in civvy street, subject to military

Near number surviving records narrow this down to end of Feb 1909.

Here's a copy of the header for Pte Bird, 1410, service record 

This confirms the 7/5 split and that he (Andrews) would thus still be in colour service when the Great War started.(ah- unless a transfer in as Peter has suggested might be a possibility!)

Edited 26 September by charlie962

[Young_dirk]

55 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Near number surviving records narrow this down to end of Feb 1909.

Here's a copy of the header for Pte Bird, 1410, service record 

This confirms the 7/5 split and that he (Andrews) would thus still be in colour service when the Great War started.(ah- unless a transfer in as Peter has suggested might be a possibility!)

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of British World War I service records were destroyed in German bombings during World War II, correct?

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Young_dirk said:

The 1891 and 1901 census' have him born in Staffordshire and Wolverhampton, Staffordshire respectively.

I think I've found him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales - but bear with me.

The source I'm using has him transcribed as Private Walter Andrews serving with the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers and in Barracks at Khandalla, Poona District, India.

However there are multiple units listed on that page of the Barracks return, and 8 lines above the entry for Walter there is a change of unit from the Royal Dublin Fusiliers to something else. Unfortunately whoever at the Barracks completed the census return made a bit of a "pigs ear" of it and the corrections made has obviously confused the transcriber. To me it looks like the uncrossed out wording when pulled together should read 1 Bn R. Warwickshire Reg.

The entry does have him as born Wolverhampton, unmarried and his civilian occupation as Carpenter. But his age is recorded as 25.

So either the officer \ clerk at the barracks made an error - and their track record isn't too good so far - or Walter made himself 4 years younger when he enlisted in 1909, assuming that is that he was soldier 1418.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited. Walter is on line 27. The difficult to transcribe unit is on line 19 and the reference to the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers is on line 8. Whoever did the transcription has treated the ditto's as relating to the line 8 entry.

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 19 year old Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton and a Carpenters Apprentice who was recorded living with his "parents" John S and Rose, in one of the Worstead Villas on Waterloo Road North, Wolverhampton. There is a 20 year aged difference between the couple, plus the oldest child living with them, Arthur, was 27, so I assume Rose was the stepmother of Walter and the natural mother of the 9 year old Robert who is one of the other children listed in the household.

So I believe Walter enlisted for the first time in February 1909, (thanks @charlie962, saved me a lot of legwork) claiming to be 23 but was more like 27.

This also provides a more likely explanation of why he still had service number 1418 when he went to war in August 1914 and why he didn't become time expired before conscription was introduced in 1916 - a real possibility if we were looking at the scenario that he was part way through a 12 year enlistment and transferred into the Royal Warwickshire Regiment in February 1909.

I thought there was something hinky about it from the scenario set out - and there was. He lied about his age to enlist, but more unusually, he made himself younger.

Neither the 1891 or the 1901 Censuses of England & Wales has a candidate for a Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton, who would have been the right age to have been 25 in 1911.

As always with genealogy there is a real risk that everything I've written is just a load of co-incidences, so don't treat it as 100% accurate.

Hope that makes some kind of sense.

Cheers,
Peter

[Young_dirk]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

I think I've found him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales - but bear with me.

The source I'm using has him transcribed as Private Walter Andrews serving with the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers and in Barracks at Khandalla, Poona District, India.

However there are multiple units listed on that page of the Barracks return, and 8 lines above the entry for Walter there is a change of unit from the Royal Dublin Fusiliers to something else. Unfortunately whoever at the Barracks completed the census return made a bit of a "pigs ear" of it and the corrections made has obviously confused the transcriber. To me it looks like the uncrossed out wording when pulled together should read 1 Bn R. Warwickshire Reg.

The entry does have him as born Wolverhampton, unmarried and his civilian occupation as Carpenter. But his age is recorded as 25.

So either the officer \ clerk at the barracks made an error - and their track record isn't too good so far - or Walter made himself 4 years younger when he enlisted in 1909, assuming that is that he was soldier 1418.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited. Walter is on line 27. The difficult to transcribe unit is on line 19 and the reference to the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers is on line 8. Whoever did the transcription has treated the ditto's as relating to the line 8 entry.

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 19 year old Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton and a Carpenters Apprentice who was recorded living with his "parents" John S and Rose, in one of the Worstead Villas on Waterloo Road North, Wolverhampton. There is a 20 year aged difference between the couple, plus the oldest child living with them, Arthur, was 27, so I assume Rose was the stepmother of Walter and the natural mother of the 9 year old Robert who is one of the other children listed in the household.

So I believe Walter enlisted for the first time in February 1909, (thanks @charlie962, saved me a lot of legwork) claiming to be 23 but was more like 27.

This also provides a more likely explanation of why he still had service number 1418 when he went to war in August 1914 and why he didn't become time expired before conscription was introduced in 1916 - a real possibility if we were looking at the scenario that he was part way through a 12 year enlistment and transferred into the Royal Warwickshire Regiment in February 1909.

I thought there was something hinky about it from the scenario set out - and there was. He lied about his age to enlist, but more unusually, he made himself younger.

Neither the 1891 or the 1901 Censuses of England & Wales has a candidate for a Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton, who would have been the right age to have been 25 in 1911.

As always with genealogy there is a real risk that everything I've written is just a load of co-incidences, so don't treat it as 100% accurate.

Hope that makes some kind of sense.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter, you're a genius! I don't think I would have ever bothered looking at this census record because of all the mistakes and the wrong age (I also don't believe it would have been suggested by the algorithm due to the age difference). I'll dig more into this, but thank you so much for the help. 

 

Edit: I just thought about this some more after dusting off the cobwebs. Walter's father died in 1909 (roughly when Walter would have joined). Seeing as he wasn't the firstborn nor the wife (the step-mom also moved to the states anyway and he might not have wanted to go), he probably didn't get much of an inheritance, if anything at all. Considering he was about to be homeless (or at least having to board) and was used to living at home and wasn't courting anyone, he likely sought military service as a means to buffer those personal issues. I'm not sure what the culture surrounding an impending war looked like in England around that time, but I'm fairly certain very few considered it likely and Walter probably thought it was a safe bet and worth lying about his age to buy some time.

Edited 27 September by Young_dirk
Additional thoughts

[PRC]

15 hours ago, PRC said:

This time round they would have issued service number 1418 at some point between the 11th August 1908, (1152) and the 13th December 1909, (1493).

In that 15 month period the Royal Warwicks recruited 342 individuals - barely enough to keep up with the natural attrition of men coming to the end of their 12 years and wastage through the loss of individuals for both honourable and dishonourable reasons. So you can see they might be prepared to turn a blind eye to some of the stories told by those looking to enlist.

Looking at those other men of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment recorded on lines 19 to 26 of that census return reads like something from "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Lance Corporal William Boothroyd – MiC for a Serjeant 696 William Boothroyd. First landed France 22/08/1914. Prisoner of War.
Frank Overall?
Joseph Redfern – MiC for Private \ Acting Corporal 638 Joseph W. Redfern. First landed France 22/08/1914. Killed in Action.
John Hone – MiC for Private 721 Private John Hone. First landed France 27/08/1914. “Deceased”.
Robert Priest – MiC for Private 867 Robert Priest. Silver War Badge Card. Enlisted 15/05/1906, honourably discharged as a result of wounds 30^th April 1918. Did not serve overseas until later in the war.
William Benson – Most likely is MiC for 859 Private William Benson. First landed in France 21/11/1915. Killed in Action. But there is at least one other possible.
Robert Allen – Most likely is MiC for 1375 Private Robert Edward\Edmond Allen. First landed in France 22/08/1914. Subsequently honourably discharged before the end of the conflict – Silver War Badge issued.
William Mills – too many, (758 MiC matches for the name) to readily check.

17 hours ago, Young_dirk said:

I have his name as Walter Andrews, b. ~1881, d. unsure if during the war.

I'll PM you.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

Brilliant research by you Peter, as per usual.  One of the most common reasons to transfer regiment both before and after the 2nd Anglo/Boer War was during the changeover of battalions overseas, especially but not exclusively, in India.  Do you happen to know whether or not the Royal Dublin Fusiliers were departing and Royal Warwickshires arriving in an overseas garrison at the time of his transfer?

These drafts of transferees generally suited both units and were a longstanding tradition.  The battalion departing had to reduce its numbers to the home service establishment, which was lesser by several hundreds, and the battalion arriving needed men with some theatre experience that could quickly be imbued in the new arrivals.

In addition many men found life in India to their liking as there was more free time, leisure activities were cheap, and the routine dirty jobs associated with a battalion’s domestic arrangements were almost exclusively carried out by a native servant class.  Also married men in quarters had better facilities and commonly engaged at least one or two servants to aid with family life, which meant the wives of other ranks also enjoyed some benefits.  These factors, too, led to many men transferring in order to remain overseas.

Edited 27 September by FROGSMILE

[charlie962]

57 minutes ago, PRC said:

William Mills – too many, (758 MiC matches for the name) to readily check.

But quite possibly 1145 who attested mid 1908 (age 17 or just 18?) and was discharged 20/7/1916. Entered France 22/8/14, like Andrews. 

Would he have been reconscripted ?

SWB card says attested 12/8/08, discharged wounds. (Wounding reported 7/8/15).

Edit edit. Always a great rabbit hole, the follow up of these cohorts!!

Edited 27 September by charlie962

[PRC]

23 hours ago, Young_dirk said:

I have his name as Walter Andrews, b. ~1881, d. unsure if during the war.

20 hours ago, Young_dirk said:

He was born 26 Oct 1881

Below is a condensed version of the PM sent to @Young_dirk. Lacking subscription access to Ancestry, Fold 3 and FindMyPart I’m hoping others can verify enough to see if this is a complete red herring or if it is worthwhile young dirk digging deeper.

------------------------------------------------OOOOOOO---------------------------------------------- 

You stated in your original post you did not know the fate of Walter – you weren’t even sure if he died in the Great War or not.

May be a co-incidence but the 1921 Census of England and Wales has a Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1881, who was recorded in Wolverhampton. I don’t subscribe so can't see the details.

Image courtesy FindMyPast.

Playing around with the search criteria brings up potentially a household consisting of:-
Mary Gertrude Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1884 living with a Walter, Mary Ann and 4 others.
Mary Ann Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1879 living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others.
Alfred Reginald Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1907, living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others
Henry George Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1914, living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others
Horace Norman Andrews, born Wolverhampton c 1905, living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others.
One unknown other

However there is no match in the Wolverhampton District civil birth record for an Alfred Reginald Andrews, a Henry George Walter Andrews or a Horace Norman Andrews.

May be a coincidence but a “May” G. Pickford married a Walter Andrews in the Wolverhampton District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1913. The marriage certificate would amongst other things show his fathers name, fathers occupation and whether he was deceased. Obviously Walters age and occupation would be useful too.

And there are birth records in the Wolverhampton district for Horace Norman Baldwin Pickford, (Q4 1905) and Alfred Reginald Pickford (Q1 1908). There is a potential matching death record for an Alfred Reginald Andrews in the Wolverhampton District in Q3 1980, for which the registrar was informed that his date of birth was the 13th December 1907. Then, as now, in England & Wales, you had 42 days after the event to register the birth. The General Registrars Office then issued lists of birth by quarter registered – which isn’t automatically the same as quarter born.

There is also a birth record for a George Walter Andrews, mothers’ maiden name Pickford, which was registered with the civil authorities in the Wolverhampton District in Q3 1914. So not Henry George Walter Andrews as transcribed on the 1921 Census!

So looks like the younger two assumed their stepfathers surname and at least one may have retained it.

The 1st Battalion of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment returned to the UK c1912, so if Walter the soldier came with them he wouldn't be ruled out as a match for the man who married May \ Mary.

Going forward to the 1939 Register, taken on the 29th September 1939 as a mini-census, that same family looks like it was recorded at 46 Wingfoot Avenue, Wolverhampton. It’s available on both FindMyPast and Ancestry.

Image courtesy FindMyPast.

There will be more information on the original document – hopefully date of birth for Walter will confirm it’s the right match for the man you are looking for.

Originally taken as a census of the nations skills in order to mobilise the country for a modern industrial war, the 1939 Register became a living document, initially used to control the issuing of I.D. cards and ration books. And when in 1948 the National Health Service came into existance, the I.D card numbers were used as the new NHS numbers, and so the document became the  NHS central registry and was updated with changes – hence why the last two entries for Dora and Joyce B. show a change of surname. That is very likely to be on marriage, with an approximate date for that coming from when the register is initialled and dated as changed by one of the NHS clerks. The original entry for 46 Wingfoot Avenue may also show closed entries.

·       The birth of a Joyce Andrews, mothers’ maiden name Pickford, was registered with the civil authorities in the Wolverhampton District in Q1 1923.  The marriage of a Joyce B. Andrews to a David B Parry was recorded in the Wolverhampton District in Q4 1953.

·       The birth of a Dora Andrews, mothers’ maiden name Pickford, was registered with the civil authorities in the Wolverhampton District in Q2 1928. The marriage of a Dora Andrews to a Geoffrey G. Baker was recorded in the Wolverhampton District in Q1 1953.

The death of a 75 year old Walter Andrews was recorded in the Wolverhampton District in Q4 1956. Unfortunately no obvious entry in the UK Probate Calendar so no additional details that might have confirmed we were looking at the right man.

So could be the curse of genealogy – a load of co-incidences, or it could be a complete red herring, in which case I apologise. The interpretation of the 1921 Census of England & Wales and the 1939 Register are my best (informed) guess.

Cheers,
Peter

[charlie962]

5 hours ago, PRC said:

On 26/09/2023 at 17:38, Young_dirk said:

I have his name as Walter Andrews, b. ~1881, d. unsure if during the war.

On 26/09/2023 at 20:19, Young_dirk said:

He was born 26 Oct 1881

Below is a condensed version of the PM sent to @Young_dirk. Lacking subscription access to Ancestry, Fold 3 and FindMyPart I’m hoping others can verify enough to see if this is a complete red herring or if it is worthwhile young dirk digging deeper.

 

------------------------------------------------OOOOOOO---------------------------------------------- 

 

You stated in your original post you did not know the fate of Walter – you weren’t even sure if he died in the Great War or not.

 

May be a co-incidence but the 1921 Census of England and Wales has a Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1881, who was recorded in Wolverhampton. I don’t subscribe so can't see the details.

 

 

 

Image courtesy FindMyPast.

 

Playing around with the search criteria brings up potentially a household consisting of:-
Mary Gertrude Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1884 living with a Walter, Mary Ann and 4 others.
Mary Ann Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1879 living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others.
Alfred Reginald Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1907, living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others
Henry George Walter Andrews, born Wolverhampton c1914, living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others
Horace Norman Andrews, born Wolverhampton c 1905, living with a Walter, Mary Gertrude and 4 others.
One unknown other

 

However there is no match in the Wolverhampton District civil birth record for an Alfred Reginald Andrews, a Henry George Walter Andrews or a Horace Norman Andrews.

 

May be a coincidence but a “May” G. Pickford married a Walter Andrews in the Wolverhampton District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1913. The marriage certificate would amongst other things show his fathers name, fathers occupation and whether he was deceased. Obviously Walters age and occupation would be useful too.

 

And there are birth records in the Wolverhampton district for Horace Norman Baldwin Pickford, (Q4 1905) and Alfred Reginald Pickford (Q1 1908). There is a potential matching death record for an Alfred Reginald Andrews in the Wolverhampton District in Q3 1980, for which the registrar was informed that his date of birth was the 13th December 1907. Then, as now, in England & Wales, you had 42 days after the event to register the birth. The General Registrars Office then issued lists of birth by quarter registered – which isn’t automatically the same as quarter born.

 

There is also a birth record for a George Walter Andrews, mothers’ maiden name Pickford, which was registered with the civil authorities in the Wolverhampton District in Q3 1914. So not Henry George Walter Andrews as transcribed on the 1921 Census!

So looks like the younger two assumed their stepfathers surname and at least one may have retained it.

The 1st Battalion of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment returned to the UK c1912, so if Walter the soldier came with them he wouldn't be ruled out as a match for the man who married May \ Mary.

Going forward to the 1939 Register, taken on the 29th September 1939 as a mini-census, that same family looks like it was recorded at 46 Wingfoot Avenue, Wolverhampton. It’s available on both FindMyPast and Ancestry.

 

 

 

Image courtesy FindMyPast.

 

There will be more information on the original document – hopefully date of birth for Walter will confirm it’s the right match for the man you are looking for.

1939 Census has this:

Courtesy Findmypast