Ozzy paul Posted 10 July Share Posted 10 July I managed to see his MIC but no pension records. I know he served with the South Wales Borderers and was discharged in April 1920 but don’t know his join up date or any service details? Any advice would be helpful in turning to track him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 July Share Posted 10 July 18 minutes ago, Ozzy paul said: I managed to see his MIC but no pension records. Pension index card for a disability claim Image thanks to WFA/Fold3 Discharged 11.4.20 A weekly pension award of 12/- from 12.4.20 to 12.10.20 was the 30% of disability rate for a pension Class V/Pte under the 1919 Royal Warrant [a six month initial award period was quite common] MoP Region 5 = Wales M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 July Share Posted 10 July (edited) I note from his MIC only a British War Medal - rather suggesting Overseas service, but not in theatre of war, making me think his discharge was potentially for sickness rather than wounds and in the absence of more info further surmising that it potentially was for only a temporary condition. I'd be looking for an overseas SWB Bn. Edit: As he was discharged from the SWB and no mention of another regiment on either card - don't know if there was one that perhaps served in India ??? M Edited 10 July by Matlock1418 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy paul Posted 10 July Author Share Posted 10 July Thanks for the quick reply. Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 10 July Admin Share Posted 10 July His BWM is because he served in the Infantry Reserve Depot in India. Image courtesy Ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 10 July Admin Share Posted 10 July Looking at Wikipedia South Wales Borderers - Wikipedia () the likely battalion was 1/1st Brecknockshire as they appear to be the only SWB Bn to have spent most of the war in India. Likelihood is when most of the Battalion went to Aden he was left behind for some reason thus not being awarded the Victory Medal. I have had a look for service records in nearby service numbers but not found any so far that would corroborate this theory. I am sure an expert on the SWBs will be along soon to put the record straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy paul Posted 10 July Author Share Posted 10 July Thanks David and Matlock. Further research is needed then and I will read up on the reserve depot and the Borderers different battalions. Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 10 July Admin Share Posted 10 July I have edited the thread title slightly to try to attract the SWB India experts - good luck with your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 10 July Admin Share Posted 10 July His pre-war occupation may offer a clue but I suspect he attested under the Derby or Group Scheme around December 1915 Combed out and mobilised beginning of August 1917, certainly before the end of that month. Probably in a draft to the 1/1 Brecknocks embarking Devonport 28.11.1917 - disembarking Bombay (Mumbai) 23.1.1918. As Atkinson remarks in the History of the SWB Garrison Duty in India carried on much as it had done before the war. The biggest threat was disease, and the biggest grievance held by the men of the Brecknocks was that they were the last to be returned home. At the Armistice they were stationed at Mhow. Coal miners were released first and by March 1919 the Battalion was down to 456 men. Eventually brought up to 500 as men returned from various assignments. In August 191 12 Officers and 300 me were posted to what was essentially a scratch force on the North West Frontier with the 1st South Lancs, and 25th London. The remaining 200 or so soldiers moved from Mhow to Calcutta. The battalion arrived back in England in early November. Atkinson notes that this was almost exactly five years since they departed for foreign service and not many of those who had left then were still with the battalion when it returned. It is perhaps worth mentioning other men in the 316** series were posted from the 3rd Battalion to the BEF and active service units in France. India (with exceptions- I have the full list) was not a theatre of war, therefore no requirement to keep a war diary and for the soldiers no entitlement to the Victory Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 10 July Share Posted 10 July His pension record card (image courtesy Fold 3 via Western Front Association). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 10 July Admin Share Posted 10 July According to the 1921 census he was a Railwayman. Might have been a reason for keeping him at the depot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 10 July Share Posted 10 July (edited) 1 hour ago, HarryBrook said: His pension record card (image courtesy Fold 3 via Western Front Association). You beat me to publishing! - Had spotted the "CLARKE" [there is also a CLARKE/CLAKE card but I've been diverted on another task] Glad it confirms the 30% disability rate and the sickness [Malaria] I'd earlier identified/surmised, before seeing this. Did you spot the reverse showing an entry for 9/9/20, 10% and Final, 5/6 pw from 13/10/20? [This award would have been under the 1919 Royal Warrant] Certainly would match a soldier returning from India = Welcome home! FYI: The 1919 RW rates would not have changed before 1946 when the rates were revised again post-WW2 [It might be of further interest that Hansard notes that on 6 Jun 1924 the Rt. Hon. Stephen WALSH, who was Sec. of State for War at the time, went on the record claiming that the cost of living in 1924 was over 27 1/2 percent less than what it was in 1919 - I still think the pensioners would have had to stretch things by 1946!] M 1 hour ago, DavidOwen said: According to the 1921 census he was a Railwayman. Might have been a reason for keeping him at the depot? Glad he had a job on his return. M Edited 10 July by Matlock1418 walsh's position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 10 July Admin Share Posted 10 July 1 hour ago, DavidOwen said: According to the 1921 census he was a Railwayman. Might have been a reason for keeping him at the depot? Browsing the Roll shows they were all listed as Infantry Reserve Depot India. Some of the original men were posted to the 4th Battalion in Mesopotamia. Essentially they were deployed to various garrison duties across the District to which they were deployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 July Share Posted 10 July Taken from a separate thread:Lance Corporal James [William] HOYES 22201 South Wales Borderers, Enlisted 17.04.1915 There is a surviving WO 364 service record for 30212 John Elias EVANS, Enlisted 15 February 1916The 451** series of numbers to those transferred to the South Wales Borderers were issued on 19 March 1917. This does suggest enlisting in 1916, after the Military Service Act had come into being. What is interesting is that because of this legislation he is transferred to a TF battalion. Having something of a 1914 orientation, it looks "odd" to me, but this was indeed facilitated under the 1916 MSA. Battalions with a TF ancestry were no longer solely staffed by those men who had enlisted under TF terms of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy paul Posted 10 July Author Share Posted 10 July HI MATLOCK, His real name was CLAKE but often misspelled for Clarke. Thank you for the feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy paul Posted 10 July Author Share Posted 10 July Thanks Ken seems a bit harsh not being awarded the medal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy paul Posted 26 September Author Share Posted 26 September I can see medal index card and a pension record but minimal information. Can anyone advise where there is more info, if any on this Great Uncle of mine. I think he served in the North West Frontier but not sure and would like to verify his terms of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September (edited) 24 minutes ago, Ozzy paul said: I can see medal index card and a pension record but minimal information. Can anyone advise where there is more info, if any on this Great Uncle of mine. Probably worth looking at the MIC's relevant Medal Roll - likely to cite a Battalion(s) - then look at the relevant War Diary(ies) [for general if not specific information] M Edit: The MIC only cites a BWM Medal Roll - suggesting service in a location not considered a full ToW - I suppose India & NWF could potentially fall into that category. ?? Might make finding a WD challenging. From LLT http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/south-wales-borderers - could this perhaps be the case? 1/1st Brecknockshire Battalion August 1914 : in Brecon. Part of South Wales Brigade, Welsh Division. 29 October 1914 : left Brigade and sailed from Southampton with the Home Counties Division, arriving Bombay 2 December. 6 December 1914 : moved to Aden, arriving 16 December 1914 and coming under orders of the Aden Brigade. 6 August 1915 : departed from Aden and returned to Bombay, arriving six days later. Joined Mhow Brigade in 5th (Mhow) Division and remained at Mhow throughout the war. Two half-companies were usually stationed at Indore. ??? You really do need to see if the MR can help. Edited 26 September by Matlock1418 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September One PIC indicates discharged 11.4.20 - so potentially a late return from overseas ??? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September 1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said: Probably worth looking at the MIC's relevant Medal Roll Medal Rolls shows entitlement to the BWM, Infantry Reserve Depot, India (image courtesy of Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy paul Posted 27 September Author Share Posted 27 September Thanks Matlock for this.nnConfirms the India and only the one medal. Thanks for your help Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 October Admin Share Posted 3 October Duplicate topic merged Please can we keep it one soldier one topic to avoid duplication of effort Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 October Share Posted 3 October 8 minutes ago, kenf48 said: Please can we keep it one soldier one topic to avoid duplication of effort I agree, it can greatly assist us. Paul, If you feel that a topic subsequently better requires posting in a particular alternative sub-forum you can probably politely ask the moderators to move the thread from its initial/current sub-forum to that particular alternative sub-forum on your behalf = likely to be better than too many threads all about the same chap, and spread across several sub-forums to boot. Hope the research is going well. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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