Robert Hook

[Jaqualine]

Hi

I have found that my grandfather's brother Robert Hook died on the 14th of February 1916. I know he married Ellen McCleary who subsequently remarried shortly after and that his death was in France / Flanders. He was in the Scottish Rifles. I've attached his marriage certificate and her pension record (it seems to have an incorrect dob on there).

Is there a way to find out what happened to him and where I could research his war story?

Thank you.

Jackie 

ScotlandsPeople_M1915_644_11_0277Z.pdf Hook, Robert (B 7260) - Page 1 Forces Website.pdf

[Michelle Young]

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/732162/robert-hook/

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352816

Welcome to the forum. The second link gives you the war diaries, they are free to download after you register, also free. They will tell you what was going on day to day. 

Robert has no known grave and is remembered on the Loos memorial. 

[Jaqualine]

Thank you so much for the information.

[Michelle Young]

I will be visiting Loos memorial in a couple of weeks and will gladly get you a photo. 

[Michelle Young]

His medal index card shows he entered a theatre of war (France) on 24/11/1915. 

[Jaqualine]

Thanks so much for this . I really appreciate it X

 

[kenf48]

Pte Hook was one of three men from his Battalion who were killed that day. It seems to have been a relatively quiet day from the war diary with no significant action.  It appears they were victims of the general war of attrition and most likely were killed as a result of artillery fire. Unfortunately it seems a page of the diary is missing but there is reference to an intense artillery bombardment, 'similar to the one we suffered'.  Relief was always a dangerous time in the trenches as men moving about provided targets for artillery.

The 46 Brigade Diary WO95/1948-1 records February 14th as a "quiet day'. It is always worth downloading the Brigade Diary as it often gives more accurate description and map references as to deployments.  The Operation Order shows two platoons of the Cameronians were attached to the 7th Kings Own Scottish Borderers. Their diary shows one NCO of that battalion was wounded on the 14th February.  It reports that on the 13th one platoon on the extreme left of their position was  'cut off' - was this the attached Cameronian platoon (?)

The OP Order shows the Rifles were on the th right in the Hulluch sector whilst the KOSB were next to them in the centre.  If they were attached there may have been a delay reporting their deaths. The 7th KOSB diary does not report any deaths that day but 3 privates wounded.

By 1915 men wore two identity discs one of which remained on the body, so it seems unlikely his body was recovered, as noted above he has no known grave and neither did his comrades all three of them are commemorated on the Loos Memorial.

You can map where they were using Trench Mapper Sheet NW3 36c

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/trenchmapper-by-the-western-front-association/ or other sources. Again there is information on how to read a trench map on that site.

Their exact position, and that of the 7th KOSB is given in the Op Order as:-

There are mapping experts on the forum who will help you if you get stuck.

As Michelle notes Pte. Hook first landed in France on the 24th November 1915 as a replacement for casualties the Battalion suffered earlier in the year in the Battle of Loos which formally ended in September 1915, although sporadic fighting continued until the Spring of 1916.

We always recommend you have a look at the Long Long Trail (LLT) website link top left for information on how to research a soldier.

This is the page on the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/cameronians-scottish-rifles/

You will see the 4th Battalion was a Home Service Reserve Battalion engaged on Home Defence at Fort Matilda Greenock as shown on his marriage certificate.  He had enlisted under Special Reserve terms (Six years with the Colours) shortly after war was declared during August 1914.

His widow Ellen, received a war gratuity of £8 10 shillings (Soldiers effects on Ancestry) As you have seen her pension ceased on her marriage in September 1916.

His service record has not survived.

 

 

 

 

[Jaqualine]

I am really overwhelmed and so very grateful at the huge amount of effort that has been put into your responses. It really means a lot. X

 

 

[Allan1892]

Image courtesy of Find My Past

[Jaqualine]

Just incredible. Thanks so much x

[Michelle Young]

@Jaqualine, respects paid earlier 

[Jaqualine]

Hi , I am really thankful for you doing this, wha lt an utterly incredible thing to do x

[Tom Lang]

On 08/09/2023 at 06:08, kenf48 said:

<snip> Unfortunately it seems a page of the diary is missing but there is reference to an intense artillery bombardment <snip>

I would tend to disagree that a page is missing. The War Diary shows that the Adjutant had a writing style that excluded some days.

For example, he made no notes for Feb 3rd to Feb 7th;  Feb 14 to 24; Feb 24 to 31.

I am attaching my transcription of the WD for the Month of February, 1916.

They say 'a picture speaks a thousand words'.

Hopefully this will help.

Tom.

[Jaqualine]

I am so very grateful for all that has been done on here for me and am in absolute awe at the time you have all taken to reply. Thanks so much . It really means so much. X

[Tom Lang]

Just now, Jaqualine said:

I am so very grateful for all that has been done on here for me and am in absolute awe at the time you have all taken to reply. Thanks so much . It really means so much. X

We all began a journey similar to yours - to find out what happened.

I personally received fantastic support and information.

I learned.

Kindest Regards and Welcome to the Forum,

Tom.

[Matlock1418]

On 07/09/2023 at 21:22, Jaqualine said:

her pension record (it seems to have an incorrect dob on there).

Jackie, Welcome.

It is not clear whose date of birth you are thinking is incorrect and why ??

The DoB of 3-5-96 on 'his' card [as you attached on your first posting] for his widow's pension records would be expected to be his widow's DoB - was necessary to determine if she was entitled to a higher age-related pension if she was >35 yo reflecting reduced possibility for remarriage [which she was not so she got the standard 10/-pw from 4-9-16]

Payment of pension typically took about 6 months to calculate/award so in the meantime SA [Separation Allowance] would continue to be paid and Form 50F was used to set the eventual transfer from SA to pension in progress.

Pensions generally seemed to be less generous than the SA - reduction because the widow no longer had to keep up suitable a home for her husband to return to.  [From 1 March 1915 the SA rate for a Private's wife, without children under 16, was 12/6 pw]

The Remarriage Gratuity was typically equivalent to two year's pension [so her's was thereabouts] - the Noted for Novel indicates some special treatment/calculation but sadly we can't see the detail/explanation here [The main Award file will normally have been deliberately destroyed shortly after its use had passed]

M

Edited 25 September by Matlock1418
add sa rate

[Jaqualine]

Hi 

How fascinating! Thanks for the information. I'd mistakingly thought it would have been his date of birth. 

Kind regards

Jackie